How many people think Ali actually beat Norton 2/3 time ?

I had Norton winning the 1st, Ali winning the 2nd and the 3rd was very close. In my opinion it could have gone either way when I was watching it, BUT I know and have very high respect for at least 2 of those judges in the 3rd bout, so I would have to go along with them. Anytime I ask a judge about their scores, they always tell me that it is different being right at the canvas judging then it is in the 3rd row or at home. I have talked to both Mercante and Lederman about this several times and both stood their ground about how they scored the bout.

Referee: Arthur Mercante 8-6
Judge: Harold Lederman 8-7
Judge: Barney Smith 8-7

Unofficial AP scorecard - 9-6 Ali
Unofficial UPI scorecard - 8-7 Norton

By the way, if you think you could do a better job why not contact your State Boxing Commissioner and see how you can become a judge or referee yourself. This way the rest of us can pick your scores a part as well.

Most if not all the States have training on how to judge and referee. I know when another good friend of mine, Larry Hazzard was the New Jersey Commissioner, you had to be in the Amateurs for a least 5 years before you could Judge or Referee in the Pro's, and then you had to be recommended by someone and then you would shadow score to see how you would do before actually judging a pro bout.

 

It was Ali's name that won him the 3rd fight at Yankee Stadium! One of the New York papers said after the fight:"If Ali won the fight last night..then the Japanese won
World War II!" Norton"wuz robbed"...

 

The New York papers were not the Judges. I respect Mercante and Lederman who were right on top of the boxers, scoring the bout. The people that scored the bout from the papers, were most likely several rows back.

The AP scorecard had Ali winning 9-6 and the UPI scorecard had it for Norton 8-7, so it was a very close bout.

 

First one is definitely Norton's. The second fight I gave to Ali 6-5-1 but I think it can be scored either way. The third fight I had 8-7 Norton. Ali stole rounds, Norton won his more convincingly, I was surprised when I looked at my score.

 

So, do you ever criticize a judge's score ?

 

How many of the jabs got through thou?.

 

The advantage of the 10-point must system is precisely that you can be awarded rounds by varying degrees. But the system is not used properly, or hardly ever. 10-9, 10-8 could both be used in "ordinary" rounds to seperate a closely won from a clearly won, with 10-7 and even 10-6 being used for beatings, pummellings, bashings and multiples KDs !

The Norton-Ali fights were on the straight rounds system.

 

I completely agree.

 

I haven't watched the fight closely, so I won't weigh in on the score. But it is very possible that the very big backlash could in part be because Ali had shortly before won controversially against Young.

And I also think that the Young fight became even more controversial in hindsight because of the controversies in the fights with Norton and Shavers. Hearing Cosell convey the sentiments at ringside of the Young fight it doesn't sound like everyone saw Young as the winner, more that it was a very close, and dull, fight.

 

Translation: I scored for Norton.

Translation: I scored for Norton.

Translation: I would have scored for Norton but couldn't add up properly at the time. A year later, I re-scored it 11-8-4 for Norton.

 

Who was that little midget who broke John Conteh's hands?