This is something that has always puzzled me. Ramos looked like a helluva fighter for about a 2-year stretch or so. He was very big-looking and strong for the weight (probably the "biggest" FW I've ever seen), he was a good technician, and he had a tremendous right hand. He knocked over a bunch of contenders, then (tragically, of course) toppled a very good and probably underrated champion in Davey Moore. After that he defended his title a couple of times against legit contenders. Then, he traveled to Africa for a fight with local contender Floyd Robertson, pretty much unknown outside his homeland, and that turned out to be a big turning point in his career. Ramos took a lot of punishment in the late rounds and was floored, but managed to retain his title on a controversial split decision. (The two officials who voted for Ramos were WBA executives. Hmmmmm... :think). That fight caused an international incident, as the African commission "changed" the result to a win for Robertson and tried (unsuccessfully) to convince the rest of the world to go along with it. I've never seen footage of that fight so I don't really know what happened, but it seems Ramos was never the same afterward. In his next defense, he was busted up and stopped by Vicente Saldivar, which began Saldivar's championship run. Although Ramos floated around as a contender for some time afterward, and even got two shots at Carlos Ortiz's LW title, he never regained anything like the form or standing he had once had. Meanwhile, Robertson got another shot against Saldivar, and was crushed in just two rounds - which would seem to indicate he really wasn't all that special of a fighter. Does anyone know what caused such a sharp reversal in Ramos' career? What happened in the Robertson fight that caused him so much trouble?
Incidentally, for anyone who's never seen it, and can bear to watch it, here's Ramos' tragic battle with Moore: [yt]03uI0eb3Uqs[/yt] [yt]pd055am8OM0[/yt] [yt]Ro3bbbEVJDA[/yt] [yt]1VJMFcpXfyE&feature=related[/yt] [yt]-u8YKnDLcdg[/yt] Two real nice-looking fighters here. Such great technicians, they really knew how to fight. Watching Moore give that interview at the end is almost bone-chilling though.
I don't think he reacted to the tragedy of his fight with Moore the same way that Griffith did with Paret. For example, I don't think there was a transformation in his style like Griff's, where he became less dependent on a ko and went for points victorys. I just think he went through a natural decline, perhaps a bit steeper than some fighters, but he was essentially a rather aggresive fighter with a punch who got frustrated by taking on and losing to superior fighters like Carlos Ortiz, and didn't have the versatility to adjust like Griffith, using him again for an example, did.
I`ve got about 45 minutes of that fight, the footage is silent and missing a few rounds but the picture is clear and going on memory as I haven`t watched it in a few years Ramos did get roughed up in the last third of the fight and knocked down in the 13th round by a right hand I believe it was. As for why Ramos went downhill so suddenly I think it was due to weight making troubles from what I recall, as you pointed out he was huge for a FW and by the time of the Robertson fight making the weight was starting to catch up to him, also the Davey Moore tragedy took some of the fire out of him as well and from what I was told by someone who was close to Sugar he was never quite the same after that.
Yes to both. As to Ramos, I've read stories of how he would close down bars the night before fights. If his habits were truly like that it would explain a lot.
Ramos was known to be struggling to make weight by that time, & Robertson made a point of extending the fight into the championship rnds by staying on the backfoot thru the 1st 9-10 rnds & saving up his energy for a big surge over the last 3rd of the fight. The strategy almost worked, but the early-mid rnd deficit may have been a bit too much to overcome. The fight itself was horrifically brutal w/ both fighters giving & taking a tremendous amount of headshots, especially over the last 3rd of the fight. I can't imagine either fighter ever coming back 100% from that, & based on both fighters' next title fights, I don't believe either 1 did. This content is protected hard to say how good Robertson was or wasn't - I think the Ramos fight was a once-in-a-lifetime type of performance that he was never going to replicate under other circumstances. For the Saldivar fight, I believe he struggled to make weight, & that combined w/ the hostile atmosphere & Saldivar's fast start seemed to discourage him very quickly. he certainly didn't show any of the resilience that exemplified his performance vs. Ramos. This content is protected
Robertson crushed in 2 by Saldivar hardly indicates that Robertson "wasn't that special." It's more indicative of the fact that Saldivar was one the top 10 best feathers to ever live.
I don't know much about his career, but he finished up a pretty big guy in life, so at a time when most fighters fought closer to their natural weight, he fought 'down', which for naturally bigger men trying to capitalise, it must be a helluva battle. So yeah, probably weight!
Of course it was weight. Let's not forget at his peak featherweight - while champ - He shows up in London for a non-title with Sammy McSpadden weighing 135. Clearly he was dying at 126, so losing his title was inevitable. But for those to say he went downhill is not looking at the full picture. He reinvented himself at lightweight. And gave great performances against Chango Carmona, Raul Rojas, Raul Soriano and Mando Ramos. And lets not forget he gave a dominant champion like Carlos Ortiz pure hell in their first fight. As for framing the Floyd Robertson results between Ramos and Saldivar as a sign he was slipping, that's not a very good gauge. After the Ramos fight, Saldivar fought Delfino Rosales and went through pure hell with him. Saldivar had to pick himself off the canvas and was said to be behind on points before scoring an 11th round KO. However, 6 months later Ramos blows Rosales away inside 1 round. So, again, not a very good gauge to go by.
