How many fighters would blow Frazier out?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Marciano Frazier, Jun 26, 2007.


  1. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    A roll-call of the great heavyweights of history seldom fails to include Joe Frazier's name. Most boxing fans rank him in the top 10 of the last 120 years. However, many(perhaps most- let us see the result of this poll) seem to hold a very low opinion of him when it comes to his ability to even be competitive with a significant portion of the other top heavyweights of history.

    It seems to be a sort of knee-jerk reaction, whenever a "Frazier-vs.-a-name-opponent-with-top-punching-power" subject comes up, to pop in with "Frazier would be crushed in the first five rounds." I've variously seen people declare that champions such as Dempsey, Louis, Liston, Tyson, Lewis, and even lesser fighters like David Tua and Wladimir Klitschko, would simply swamp Frazier and take him out early. It is also frequently argued, and often by these same people, that George Foreman would destroy Frazier in the first few rounds every time, to the extent that if they fought 10 times or more, the result would be the same in every single one.

    Personally, this all seems very narrow to me. I scarcely see anyone argue that since, say, Ali could outbox Foreman and Liston, therefore any top boxer beats them. Perhaps if Liston hadn't beaten Machen and proven he could beat a top boxer, it would be a similar knee-jerk reaction to pick everyone from Tunney to Walcott to Young to Byrd to beat him, the way people do with Frazier and power-punchers.

    I would also like to point out, as I've done many times before, that Frazier was significantly past his peak when he lost to Foreman; he was 202-207 in nearly all of his top performances, but 214 against Foreman, and this was not a gain made up of lean muscle. He had had only two fights in close to two years since the Ali, and both were unimpressive showings against mediocre opponents. Ken Norton, his sparring partner at the time, had told Yank Durham privately that Frazier had lost something since the Ali fight, and Durham had advised Frazier to retire. Frazier's attitude in his training camp before the Foreman fight was described by observers as being more akin to that of a millionaire directing a yacht cruise than a blood-sweat-and-tears warrior conducting a serious training camp the way it had been in the past. It is clearly evident from the facts and film that Frazier had lost ground both physically and mentally in the aftermath of the Ali fight.

    Moreover, Frazier hadn't brought in any strategy different from the norm for the first Foreman fight; he was simply employing his usual barrel-in-and-break-him-up-close gameplan when he was annihilated that night. In the rematch, Frazier, now further deteriorated and nearly washed-up, brought a more well-thought-through and intelligent gameplan to the ring and was far more competitive- in fact, that fight was fairly close up until the fifth round.

    Now, if we combined these two elements- having Frazier at his best and employing a more intelligent gameplan, I see no good reason to believe he wouldn't stand a respectable competitive chance. And Foreman, in my opinion and those of most fans, had an especially bad style for Frazier, far beyond his simply being a crushing hitter: Foreman was a very fast starter, he was exceptionally strong, allowing him to manhandle Frazier and force him into position, he had a huge array of devastating punches, and he was most formidable with underhanded hooks and uppercuts, which are more effective against Frazier's type of defense. With all this taken into account, I think this oft-seen train of thought- that if probably the most devastating puncher of all time, who has a very bad style for him, can demolish a declining Frazier, therefore an assortment of other hard-hitting fighters with far different styles and ability levels could do the same to a peak Frazier- comes across as a very strained and weak standpoint.
     
  2. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    I can't see Joe surviving anyone who punches higher than 5/10. His chin was just very unreliable.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I don't know if anybody could do it with any consistency.

    I can however think of a few fighters who would always give him some rough moments in the early rounds.
     
  4. MagnificentMatt

    MagnificentMatt Beterbiev literally kills Plant and McCumby 2v1 Full Member

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    Iron Mike, Lennox Lewis, obviousley Foremon, both Klitschkos most other tall punchers with a good straight hand. Reasoning for Tyson? Opening Bell rings and Tysons landed a 3 punch combination...Joe was to slow a starter to get past Tyson..But yeah first ones that come to mind, Tyson, and most taller fighters with a STRONG straight right
     
  5. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    Frazier gets no respect around here.
     
  6. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    I would say Foreman, Tyson, Liston, and Louis. Possibly Lewis as well.
     
  7. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Smoke has never gotten the respect he deserves.
     
  8. garymcfall

    garymcfall Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Frazier gets little respect head to head, up until the first Ali fight Joe Frazier could have given most ATG heavyweights a beating. He was shot after 1971 though and the Foreman fight affects his legacy.

    Tyson, Foreman, Lewis are the ones i can think of that might get him out early.
     
  9. heerko koois

    heerko koois Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Prime Tyson would do it......Foreman has done it ...that is all folks [ 2 ]
     
  10. thunder06

    thunder06 Active Member Full Member

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    This is bull****. Frazier would do well against any fighter in his prime, even Foreman. And he would KO Tyson imo.
     
  11. heerko koois

    heerko koois Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :smoke
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Foreman would get him 10/10 times IMO. I also think Tyson could do it.

    What about Liston? No-onme has picked him. He may be the hardest hitter in the divisions history...but I haven't picked him myself. Why? Why no Liston.

    2.

    Those who are picking Lewis, he was physically capable, but it NEVER would have happened. They could have fought 50 times and Lewis might have got him, but he never would have got him early.
     
  13. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    I picked Liston, scroll up.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Quite right.

    Tell me more.
     
  15. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    Lewis gets Frazier early?:lol:

    On the flipside, if McCall and Rahman could get Lewis early, I see no reason why Frazier coudln't.