Is Joe Frazier The Greatest Body Puncher Ever?

Paolomino certainly warrants a mention GreatA. I'd put him right up there, his left to the body can be found in the dictionary under 'crippling'

 

Frazier at heavy followed by Dempsey ...

Tony Zale and Tiger at middleweight ...

McCallum was a marvel ...

Duran exceptional ...

 

At heavyweight he would be my pick but overall maybe Olivares he tore the body up.

 

There was nothing over hyped about early/middle 70's heavyweights. Watch some recordings and you will see.

 

Frazier was not a good infighter. He was easily smothered by holding. He would stop fighting when held. Also, he needed room to land the hook. His right was not a particularly effective weapon, although one can unestimated its effectiveness.

Frazier was a great heavyweight, but he wasn't the best body puncher and he wasn't a particularly effective infighter.

 

Can't say I agree with any of this. Sounds like you are describing Mike Tyson by the way (aside from the comment about Frazier's right).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6LEd0UKAII

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvR7PeRuCzU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS7MaE99GBs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM15d5l89y4

 

This stuff is some real good comic relief!

Frazier wasn't an effective infighter? Which Frazier are you referring to MrMarvel? The Joe Frazier that I watched was one of the best heavyweight infighters and perhaps one of the best of all time, body punching in particular.

I encourage you to watch Joe's career prior to the FOTC, especially the fights against Ellis, Mathis, Quarry and Manuel Ramos, who he knocked out with a body shot. He landed some wicked body licks against Ali in all three fights, so I don't understand where you can say he wasn't a great body puncher or infighter.

 

I have seen plenty of Frazier fights. Frazier is overrated as an infighter. This wasn't his strength. He needed distance to land the hook.

Maybe some people don't know what infighting is. ??? That's possible.

 

That's incredibly irritating. Another good point.

 

Frazier is an excellent infighter. He probably doesn't get enough credit for it. If you listen to Ray Mancini describe Frazier you would understand some of the subtle things he did. His lateral movement, balance and footwork were superb. He was really a fighter of inches and always made sure to check in his left foot inside the right fight of the fighter so his left hook would hit somewhere. His footwork in the Quarry, Ellis, and Foster fights is especially marvelous. After FOTC it was like Frazier was in quick sand in comparison, although he was still a solid fighter he just lost some footspeed.

 

Frazier's distance in terms of measurement was throwing left and right hooks to the body, more left hook, sometimes off of a jab, usually from a bob or weave.

I don't get off where you say Frazier was overrated as an infighter. The only time I can remember Frazier fighting more from a distance was in the rematch against Quarry. George Benton had Frazier boxing more conventionally using more shoulder slips and throwing right hands.

Do you know what infighting is?

I'm not talking about just winging punches on the inside. Frazier was a better combination puncher on the inside as opposed to the outside where he used his head movement with his body punching to get inside his opponent. For example, Frazier didn't throw the uppercuts from either hand on the outside, but when he was inside his opponents reach, he used right uppercuts to the body with the left hook in combination. The right hand was still not his most effective punch, but it wasn't completely absent from his arsenal as some people on this forum.

 

Wow PetethePrince, for once a response from myself in a thread is unscathed from slicing and dicing by you, and you also didn't bring up Marciano, but I guess I'm the bad guy now for doing so eh?

I will say this though seeming as how I'm the guilty one. Marciano was one of the best, if not the best right handed, heavyweight inside fighter. His right hooks to the body, after using his patented low roll under the heavybag was tops according to many trainers I've spoken to, and I agree. Dempsey can compare, and so can Mike Tyson, moreso with the shoulder slip and left hook off a jab.

Nice post.

 

Haha. Well I had to slice up Marvel's statement. I don't see how you can knock Frazier's infighting... he is clearly one of the greatest if not greatest infighting HW. Better than Marciano, Tyson, and Dempsey in my view. However, that doesn't mean that it's not crazy to say his stamina equals Marciano (In my view that's just plain wrong). There are other examples, not worth going through.

And no, you're not the bad guy. I have felt that you've tried to build up Frazier and almost knock Marciano by making comparison statements, and I just feel I react to that by going on the other side (Even if that is going too far). It's a bit silly.

Frazier was really a fighter of inches. Watch his footwork. He isn't plodding it's a lot of little itty bitty steps. The technical and subtle aspects can't get underwhelmed by his relentless pace and mauling foreward style. That happens to be a case with a lot of pressure sluggers/swarmers unless their defense or head-movement is very apparent. In this case Frazier's is as was Tyson's but his footwork gets overlooked. Frazier's ability to not just cut the ring but set himself up, especially for that left hook made him such a killer. You don't dispose of Jimmy Young or Bob Foster so early without having some precision in your game. In comparison, Frazier's footwork is miles better than Marciano's. So in a fantasy matchup he could use his footwork and smartly bust in and out. But of course, it's tough with that style. Let's not act like Frazier is all finesse at the same time.

 

Looking at the absolute minority you and your opinion are in, I'm just going to opt for the fact that you're obviously ******ed. :hi: