Please Participate--All-Time Welterweight Survey (POLL CLOSED!! )

Mayweather likely is the number 2 at 147, or is even good enough to be number one, but right now he should be unranked at welter. The Ring has that policy of removing you if you are inactive over a year. And since Hatton, Mayweather has beaten a man who has never fought at the weight before. Like i say, i'm not saying he's not good enough to be ranked number one at the weight, but as it stands, he should be unranked. Clearly.

 

Paul Williams can say what he wants about 147, but a guy his size has no real bidness being at welterweight anyway.... Christ, Williams is even bigger than Hearns was in 1981, and that too was insane for Hearns to be 145 for SRL in Vegas........... Williams needs 154 to 160 right now for health reasons........ But, health can be in doubt if he fights the cream of the crop at 160 pounds.......... 154 should be no problem for Williams.........

Cotto was NOT impressive against Clottey.......... I feel Clottey more so pissed away a victory there........... Clottey got caught cold early and suffered a flash knockdown, but he got up to carry on..... I admit, a wee bit timid overall.......... I knew Cotto was gonna get the nod in the end...... Clottey had his sense in rds 11 and 12, but failed to close the show by merely just staying busy in there.........

I do NOT see a long road ahead for Cotto........ He peaked at a young age and was nicely overpaid by HBO from 2004 to 2008......... Cotto could be the guy who's gets pounded again soon if not carefully matched...... We'll see there........

If Josh Clottey gets his act and focus intact, he'll be the new guy at 147......

Zabra Judah is now a name and a hanger on...........

Fraud Mayrunner needs to fight a live / real body at 147 pounds, but since I see a lot of "average" to "hasbeens" competing there, Mayrunner's options are limited

Again, the division is really only solid with "Mayrunner, Mosley, Clottey, Berto, Margarito, Quintana & Judah." Some great guys; some not so great guys......... You pick.........

Manolo Pacquaio is not legit at 147..... Against a shot DLH who was drained, well, okay there, but not against a fresh face that's still elite.....

MR.BILL:bbb:hat

 

1. Sugar ray robinson
2. Jose Napoles
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Ray Leonard
5. Ted Lewis
6. Thomas Hearns
7. Luis manuel Rodriquez
8. Emile Griffith
9. Felix Trinidad
10. Donald Curry

 

Oh yeah i get it. You guys are discussing people being ducked and the big name attraction aspect of the sport, not the pure ranking side of things. I was a bit off topic there.

 

Well, Fraud Mayrunner has only beaten natural 135 to 140 pounders in "Hatton and Marquez" as of late, but, I guess based on ability and his record, Mayrunner does indeed to be ranked in the top-5 at 147 pounds right now in late 2009....

Just because I cannot stand Mayrunner and his attitude and walk-along jive, I still will not dick him off on a deserved rating at 147...... Mayrunner is in the mix.........

MR.BILL

 

If the middleweight list was hard, this is near impossible.

The thing about the list that really worries me, is the Universal acceptance of Ray Robinson as no1. He could be, but he is on virtually every single list i have seen. He is not that much better than every other fighter at the weight. By the same token, most people have left Tommy Ryan off altogether. I really think that anyone who leaves Tommy Ryan off the list altogether should be disqualified from voting because they simply do not know about him. I would like to hear one single jusification which doesnt involve I do not know him, I did not see him, They were not as good in the old days or something similar.

Anyway, on to the list.

1. Tommy Ryan - He held his title as long as Sugar Ray Robinson, Like Ray, he never ever lost to a Welterweight, Like Ray, he fought the highest calibre of opponent available, Like Ray he relinquished his World Title and went on to dominate the middleweight World Title Scene. Unlike Ray though, Tommy Ryan never lost his World Middleweight title. Still, as a welterweight it is razor close. The edge goes to Tommy, in my book. His win over the ATG Jack Dempsey was a better win than any opponent Ray fought. Addmittedly it was Dempsey's last fight, but he had still looked in reasonable form.

2. Henry Armstrong - He actually defended the title more times than anyone. He did lose his title to Fritzie Zivic and he also lost a rematch to Zivic but he did eventually beat Zivic. He also lost to Robinson as well. But i think there is an argument that Henry was better earlier in his career. I am going to edge him into second here on the bases of more title defences than anyone else. (Rebalancing the Sugar Ray media juggernaut may have also played a role)
3. Ray Robinson - Try as i might, i just cant put Robinson below here. His record is just too good at the weight. Quite a few might have beaten him, but they didnt stay at the weight long enough and the reality is that if they were fighting in an ATG tournament at this weight, most would be young and inexperienced.

4. Jack Dempsey - If the welterweight had existed for more of his career, i am sure that more people would have him on his lists (assuming he didnt suffere from the Ryan syndrome). Especiallly since his reputation is already boosted by the Manassa Mauler association.

5. Mickey Walker - I would have had him higher, but he did not fight long enough at the weight. He did better work when went up in weights.

6. Jose Napoles - His longevit was better than nearly everyone. He is probably one of the most underated modern boxers of his era. He was a very good champion.

7. Carlos Palomino - Now this is a legacy I like and a guy i may need to consider more in the future. He won his world title without losing a fight and defended it well until he appeared to lose a little desire and lost two points decisions to Wilfred Benitez and Roberto Duran. Both ATG and neither is a shame. According to CBZ he retired and made movies. Interestingly though, he launched a comeback almost 20 years later! He won 4 fights by KO that year. He only stopped after a pts loss. He retired having never been Kod!

8. Ray Leonard - I actually think that his loss to Duran hurts his standing a bit. Both were prime, it was a massive match and both fought the very best they could. Close as it was (and who knows 20 rnds may have bought a different result) i think it is generally accepted that the best sugar Ray Leonard was bested on that night. We are talking about the best welterweight evers. I think this drops him down the list.

9. Pernell Whittaker - He held the title for as long as anyone, and everyone who saw him knows just how great he really was. He did better work at a lighter weight, but he still did a great job at welterweight.

10 Sam Langford - I was going to pick emille griffith who was a great fighter. It is starting to get hard though, there are so many greats it is almost like out of a hat. Sam was very young inexperienced at the weight, but when i think about it, he still had that awesome punching power, and i think he may KO many of the greats including all of those ranked above him, which is why i picked him. Most probably havent considered him, so hopefully some will at least delve a bit into his welterweight career.

 

On who believe to be the best, whether on ability on film or dominance against greats:

1. Robinson
2. Leonard
3. Burley
4. Galivan
5. Hearns
6. Duran
7. Napoles
8. Whitaker
9. Curry
10. Mayweather

 

Hi MR Bill, Charles is the no1 LHW of all time, Marshall considered 1 of the best head to head MWs ever, Bivins a top 10 LHW in history and Holman Williams is a true great from LW-LHW. Not to mention most these men were bigger than Burley by a decent margin

As for Burleys record there are many excellent contenders of the era there like Chase, Zivic, Wade, Lytell, Oakland Billy Smith, Cocoa Kid, Leto, Hogue. A few of Burley's conquests beat the great Archie Moore too. His resume is truly stacked

Now bare in mind the likes of Robinson, Lamotta and many of the other top fighters avoided Burley like the plague. Many trainers and fighters of the era considered him 1 of the best ever.

 

Did you just write that Burley was the # one 175 pounder of all-time?:huh

MR.BILL

Burley tops Buzzard Charles or even Bob Foster and Michael Spinks at 175???
:shock:

 

Charles he meant Bill.

 

Yeah, I ****ed up there.........atsch

MR.BILL

"Charles, Foster or Spinks" are all in that race / mix.....:thumbsup Moore falls just short against the fabulous 3 listed above.....
:yikes

 

You might get some flak for that too hahaha

:good

 

I know Moore hits # 1 on many people's ATG list at 175, however, I have always noted that Moore was slow on his feet, compared to guys like Charles and Spinks, and Foster........ Power wise, Moore is right there.... Moore can be outboxed..... That has been proven.........
:bbb

MR.BILL

 

You may be underrating Moore a lot. Cunning coot that didn't need no dazzling footwork to get er done. His footwork was superb inside his own fighting framework tho, watch it closely. Tho he won none read heavily into all his fights vs Charles, they were competitive.

I look more at his penchant for getting badly hurt in various fights. Certainly gives punchers the likes of Foster and Spinks some hope.