Who here agrees, that to own the HW title these days, you're going to have to be at least 6'4 and a muscular, lean 240+ to take a title. I think anyone who doesn't meet this criteria should boil himself down to fight at CW, because we saw it with Lennox Lewis and we're seeing it with the Klitchkos, the HW division simply isn't built for the 6'1 fighter anymore. Anyone disagree?
i do it theory. i think its very unusual to have 3 fighters in 'one era' who are as intelligent in the ring as the klitschko's and lennox was. its rare to find ringsmart fighters - truly ringsmart fighters - at any time.
I agree - but you combine that ringsmarts with the fact that you're going to be 4-5" taller than your average opponent and about 20lbs heavier while being in much better shape and they're always going to have issues. Lennox in my view was limited compared to Wladimir in terms of technical ability. I think Wladimir can throw all the shots in the book. Vitali is the lesser of the three boxers, but he's a true fighter and his power must rate in the highest echelon available. That chin isn't bad either - where Lennox and Wladimir were both average, Vitali has a rock chin.
For the most part, you are probably correct. A smaller fighter has to be exceptionally talented - like Evander Holyfield - to be competitive with these larger men. That's one reason why I rank Holyfield as the best HW since Holmes.
I don't see a style that compensates for a height and reach advantage as big as the Klitschko's take in against anyone who isn't at least 6'4. I see pathways for Wladimir being beaten by guys like Holyfield and Tyson because he doesn't have the composure. But if not injured, I don't see any condition where a guy outside of Lewis would beat Vitali if he was boxing in his prime. Too big, too powerful and doesn't have the shortage in speed, stamina and agility that you'd expect him to have owing to that size. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but he was dealing quite well with a very talented Lennox Lewis before the cut and to be able to bounce a 28 yr old mandatory around the ring when you're 38 indicates you're no bum.
Negative. People must understand that guys like Vitali Vlad and Lennox are rare and the exception to the rule. There has been way more boxers of similar stats that have been monumental failures over the years. Boxing doesnt need a Super Heavy division.
Trust me, this isn't the last 6'4+ Eastern European guy to come out and dominate the division. You've got guys who aren't more than 3 to 4 years away who are over 6'4, have extremely impressive amateur careers. I'm not advocating for a SHW division either, I'm just saying to be effective in this divison, you're going to need to have that size.
Tyson would have ****ed up either Klit, so no I don't agree. I'm a fairly big Klit fan btw, like em both.
I'd give people even money on Wlad vs Tyson solely because I think Wlad would be intimidated by Tyson. I think Vitali would starch Tyson in 6-10 personally, even the pre-prison version. While he has a great style to counteract taller opponents with the headmovement and ability to work on the inside, it comes down to who can take the other persons best shots and how often their best shots can land. I've got to put Vitali on the same level of power as Tyson, add to that his reach advantage, hard to see a way for Tyson winning.
like pugilisticpower said, believe it or not, the average eastern european man is huge... and if they become athletes, they become even more huge!.. thing is, most of these fighters couldnt be pros till after 1991 ... think about it, you have a program with very good fighters who couldnt be pros cuz of politics.. and now, since like 95 and on (starting with the bros, and before them Golota and Maskaev) they've coming over and over and are quickly taking over the division.. these guys are huge, they grow up in palces where the temperature force the human body to adapt and become stronger and bigger.... I agree 6'3 and 6'4 fighters will be more and more common... and they will actually be on shape.. if you really research, most (if not all) of these eastern european fighters are really fitr and always great conditionated!! if there's one thing the soviets did well in the past (and ex-pats countries continue to do) is preach and teach conditionating AND DISCIPLINE
Lewis has the better chin then Wlad. Lewis face far more bigger punchers then Wlad and took those punches well except Rahman and Mccall.
Pre-prison Tyson vs. Vitali Klitschko would've been like something out of a dream. I think Tyson beats him en route to a decision, but with some very, VERY interesting moments in between the first and 12th round.
I think it's composure that's the difference. I think Wlad's chin isn't really that bad, but when he gets hit, he panics. Lennox didn't panic as much when he got hit, had more of a fighters heart.
Quite possibly, but proposing that you don't need to big in today's HW scene by stating an example of a once in a century type of fighter that might cause them problems is not a very convincing argument. I think we are more likely to see another 6'6" fighter of a similar standard to Wlad, Vitali or Lennox before we see another 5'11" fighter of Tyson's ability, in which case it is likely that you will need to be big to compete - being a moderately skillful but smallish HW will just not cut it if the dominant fighters are big and skillful.