Please Participate--All-Time Welterweight Survey (POLL CLOSED!! )

Flea's,

Gavilan at 108-30-5 (TWENTY EIGHT) KO's has a **** poor KO %.......... Gavilan thrived on skills and finess, and savy......... He was a master boxer....... In fact, he is as close to a "Pure" boxer you'll ever find who at least owned a touch or power........ However, no elite fighter ever feared his power going into a fight..........
bbb

MR.BILL

 

Actually, Robinson in his autobiography said he was wary of his power going into their second fight. :deal

Either way, if fighters didn't "fear" his power going into a fight, they usually came to respect it after it started. He broke Bratton's jaw early and shut him down, he dropped Davey early and deterred him from fighting his usual swarming fight, he dropped Rocky Castellani twice, and he even made guys as tough as Basilio and Graham leery of his power and tentative about opening up. And he had impressive KOs over MWs like Walter Cartier (who outweighed him by about 10 pounds) and Tony Janiro.

 

Yes... But..... Even a guy like Gavilan or Benitez can sometimes pull out a rabbit from the hat and clock a mother for the full count....... See Mo Hope against Benitez from '81 at 154 pounds..... Hope went out like a bulb from a Benitez right hand........... But, we all know that Benitez was no serious power-puncher in his day........ It just goes to show that **** does happen every blue moon or so..........
:hey

MR.BILL

 

Franklin,

You are insane... But, I do agree that dudes like "Starling & Quartey" were very capable and decent 147 lb. champs...... They could compete on even terms with just about anyone whoever held the title at 147.........

MR.BILL:bbb

 

Because after he beats PBF mate he will go down as one of the best.:good Thats if PBF mans up. Mosley is pretty good at the weight. Underated in my book.

Britton i never see fight. So i was adding some modern day fighters to my list as i feel every great list should have modern day fighters.

Just because there technique is different today. Its faster with better balance.

While yester year is more Powerful with greater and harder fighters. Stamina wise.

They went 15 rounds and seemed to hit harder. But the fighters today are much quicker and the modern day science teach's them better ways.

IMO.

 

I love the old farts and psycho intellects who are way too young to have ever seen dudes like Britton or the original Joe Walcott fight, but yet, swear up and down to Christ that these dudes could've whipped King Kong and Godzilla on the same night.......

I am NOT saying that Jack Britton or Joe Walcott weren't great fighters in the ring, but, for cryin' out loud they were of old style and school..... Lotsa' guys with skills and decent power can beat a man 40 or 50 pounds heavier than they are / were....... Skill really does pull a lot of weight...........

I have no doubt that lightweight champ Joseph Gans was a great boxer / puncher who was ahead of his times but, I have never seen any of his fights; only his still photos........

MR.BILL

 

No point in accepting when you're wrong.


And to FrankenFrank you are an idiot. Again.

 

I do agree with you to an extent.

There is some footage of Gans on youtube, nothing too impressive IMO.

I see these guys as innovators. I don't see Gans dealing with an Escebedo nowadays, and that's the truth.

 

Flea's,

WTF are you talkin' bout?:huh Wrong? My ass.......:bbb Gavilan was NOT a puncher; he was a boxer who tried to punch........ He had punches, but nothing really wicked with power............ Kinda' like the very talented Marlon Starling................... Who was another guy along with Benitez that knew how to box / fight, yet only had average power....... Still, even average punchers sometimes hit home-runs..........
:think

MR.BILL

 

I love the tales of Gans, Jack Johnson, Benny Leonard & Eugene Tunney.... I have two ruff tapes of "Dempsey-Tunney" footage on file...

These guys were great, but were they greatest of all-times? Maybe back in their day, but not today or anymore.....
:good

MR.BILL

 

My (recently updated) list of the greatest division that Queensberry Rules has known*:

1 Ray Robinson
2 Ray Leonard
3 Kid Gavilan
4 Emile Griffith
5 Henry Armstrong
6 Jose Napoles
7 Felix Trinidad
8 Thomas Hearns
9 Oscar de la Hoya
10 Carmen Basilio

Mentions to: Tommy Ryan, 'Mysterious' Billy Smith, 'The original' Joe Walcott, Mike Sullivan, Jack Britton, Ted 'Kid' Lewis, Mickey Walker, Jackie Fields, Barney Ross, Jim McLarnin, Fritzie Zivic, Red Cochrane, Benny 'Kid' Paret, Luis Rodriguez, Carlos Palomino, Pipino Cuevas, Roberto Duran, Don Curry, Marlon Starling, Pernell Whitaker, Shane Mosley, Floyd Mayweather Jr and Miguel Cotto

*I rate Burley work purely as a Middleweight

 

De La Hoya? Over Rodriguez/Ted Kid Lewis, Duran.....Mosley evenatsch

 

Again, agree to an extent. Don't think they match up brilliantly to todays guys.............guys like Tunney and Loughran would evidently still be effective in some capacity.

 

TBooze...could you share your thoughts why you place Tito so high in your ranking?