Uh-Oh..Before we bring up Calzaghes comments on Roy a few years before fighting him..

FrochPascal · Sep 29, 2009

Irish84 said: ↑

Calzaghe stated in his book that Jones was done.

Then when they made they fight he started telling us that Jones was not done and was still a great fighter.

Hopkins has said Roy is not the same "superman" as he was

Hopkins says he will "put Roy to sleep"

Big difference between the two.
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yea riight. Just read above, il copy and paste some:

"I'm hoping Roy doesn't stay in and hustle his name and let people pimp him and use him up," Hopkins said. "This is a cruel business. I think Roy should just roll out. I don't think he has the physical and mental ability to fight at any weight class now - super middleweight, light heavyweight, cruiserweight, heavyweight. I think it's a wrap."

I also Jones is not done anyway. I never remember calzaghe saying he was as good as before. This is Hopkins post fight:

Calzaghe said: "Roy Jones is a tremendous ambassador for the sport and he can still fight. He's still got that speed and that bit of magic there. But I've beaten one legend tonight and I'll beat another one."

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kirk · Sep 29, 2009

Cobbler said: ↑

Calzaghe v Jones comfortably outsold Pavlik v Hopkins at about the same time. That doesn't really fit your argument...
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Considering HBO's promotion for Roy vs JC, being a whole 24/7 series... i should hope that it outsold Hopkin vs Pavlik... which in and of itself was not a fight that was clamored for, due to ironically that hopkins was probably on his last leg as an elite world class fighter.

Dont think for a second that HBO didnt push RJJ vs JC, Jones pushed a song and music video for the fight, HBO did a 24/7, ect.... and they did what... 250,000 buys?

Really?

And i fail to see how citing Hopkins vs Pavlik has anything to do with the fact that nobody wanted to see Roy jones vs JC... the two are not linked whatsoever.

In fact... nobody was clamoring for a Hopkins vs Pavlik fight at that time eather.... and yet it still barely did worse then JC vs RJJ that was pushed by a 24/7 series.

That being said... interest in a fight shouldnt be totally confused with PPV buys, if that was the case... that would mean Mayweather vs JMM was the most craved fight in all of boxing this year atsch A number is a number and doesnt tell the whole story. Pac vs Valero lets say would do 500k buys, while Pac vs Hatton 2 would probably do around the same number... which one you think would be craved more by actual fans? Just because the numbers are the same doesnt mean it was wanted the same.

so despite the dismal numbers, one might say 'well like you said, numbers dont tell the whole story, and thats true, except i know my history and remember it, and its a fact almost nobody wanted Roy Jones Jr as JC's first choice of opponent (dawson), or second choice (pavlik), or third choice (johnson)....

you guys can believe what you want, and think that roy jones was the fight people wanted to see, with 250,000 buys after a 24/7 series dedicated to it... and that a lot of people were craving the fight. But youd be wrong... because it was hardly a craved fight at all.

Which leads to the main point of this thread.... how is it ok for Hopkins to do what JC did, and not get the same treatment.

Like i said, its probably not fair.... but the circumstances are a bit differant in that this fight is craved more (and thats not saying a lot, as even this fight isnt craved THAT much), its a chance for hopkins to avenge a loss, no matter how late, their history, and the fact that Hopkins is 45 years old and its hard to accuse him of taking the easy route after just fighting pavlik and saying he will go on to eather adamek or the winner of dawson/johnson after this.

Is it fair? probably not..... i see where the double standard is being given, and i personally probably wouldnt choose this fight for bernard, but i can also see how people can defend it as well.

kirk · Sep 29, 2009

Cobbler said: ↑

Calzaghe v Jones comfortably outsold Pavlik v Hopkins at about the same time. That doesn't really fit your argument...
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and no... pavlik vs hopkins has nothing to do with my argument :blood An argument im not even making, as im not arguing anything... because i tend to agree with the thread starter in that they are both doing the same thing in a way. Im just trying to play devils advocate and show that there ARE differances.

Unless you mean the argument of that people WANTED to JC to fight Roy Jones... and in that, i have no clue how Pavlik vs Hopkins has anything to do with my point other then the points i touched on in my previous post.

Sorry but anyone who thinks popular choice was for JC to fight RJJ is... sorry to put it bluntly, wrong. And if that IS who they wanted him to fight, they were probably hard core JC fans who wanted to see him retire going out with a win (no shame in that) or Roy Jones fans that wanted to see their boy get a shot at JC.

zarman · Sep 29, 2009

kirk said: ↑

That was also before Roy looked pretty good against Lacy.... lets be real. I dont put much stock in that fight, and i too think roy is finished.... but bernard is the one who is constantly getting asked when hes going to fight roy, by media, by fans, by radio shows, and Roy wants the fight too.... so im sure he finally said F it.

Nobody really cared to see JC vs Jones... and most were clamoring for him to fight dawson.

I can see where your drawing the comparison, but i think its more acceptable by bernard given their history, the fans seeming demand, both being at the end of their rope career wise, ect, ect... and the fact that Hopkins is most likely going to head on to fight the other people people want him to fight after this fight.

People were calling for JC to fight Dawson and Pavlik.... instead he fought Roy Jones and then retired, i dont think people would have had as big a problem with that fight had he gone on to fight dawson. I think it was the very anti-climatic turn of events that bittered people towards that fight... also, as weird as this may be, Roy imo was actually considered MORE DONE as a fighter then as he is now, having since then DROPPED JC (despite losing almost every round) and looked spectacular for his age against journeyman Lacy.

Also, again, it cant be oversaid that this fight basically is differant in the fact that these two have history, and are constantly bothered about this fight.... and is hopkins chance to avenge his standout loss.

i dont know... i 110% see what your saying i just guess i let hopkins off the hook a bit more then i do JC for the reasons i stated above.
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maybe not in america but in england it was the fight the media where all hyping. as soon as calzaghe beat hopkins jones was dragged down his throat.

Cobbler · Sep 29, 2009

Why did you feel the need to respond twice to the same one line post?

The reason Hopkins v Pavlik is relevant is that your claim was that people wanted to see Calzaghe fight Pavlik rather than Jones. If that was actually the case, then we would have expected that Pavlik against another veteran champion to have been more popular.

And, yes, the fact that Mayweather v Marquez sold a million PPVs does mean exactly that it was the fight that most people wanted to see this year (or at least that it was the fight that the most people were willing to shell out $50 to see). You might not like it, but that's exactly what it means. Your argument seems to rest on the contention that most of the people who spent $50 watching a night of boxing are not 'actual fans' of the sport....

kirk · Sep 29, 2009

Cobbler said: ↑

Why did you feel the need to respond twice to the same one line post?

The reason Hopkins v Pavlik is relevant is that your claim was that people wanted to see Calzaghe fight Pavlik rather than Jones. If that was actually the case, then we would have expected that Pavlik against another veteran champion to have been more popular.

And, yes, the fact that Mayweather v Marquez sold a million PPVs does mean exactly that it was the fight that most people wanted to see this year (or at least that it was the fight that the most people were willing to shell out $50 to see). You might not like it, but that's exactly what it means. Your argument seems to rest on the contention that most of the people who spent $50 watching a night of boxing are not 'actual fans' of the sport....
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well then we will have to agree to disagree...

i guess your saying that pretty much Mayweather vs JMM was what... the 5th or 6th most wanted fight in the history of boxing ppv below heavyweight by your reasoning :blood

if you cant see the irrational viewpoint of that then im sorry... cant do anything about that.

Also... if you truly think that most people didnt want to see JC vs Pavlik more then JC vs RJJ at that time... then again, were going to have to agree to disagree, because i specifically remember that fight being a waste of JC's time...

Again, your confusing how big someones name is.... to how much the fight is anticipated and wanted.

Like i said... just because Pac vs Hatton 2 could get 400k or so in a rematch because Pac is a star and hatton has a big name as well... doesnt make the fight ones the fans wanted to see, and doesnt make it a good matchup and fight. that doesnt mean they WONT WATCH IT, but its sure as hell isnt one that is craved.

its pretty common sense imo...

kirk · Sep 29, 2009

zarman said: ↑

maybe not in america but in england it was the fight the media where all hyping. as soon as calzaghe beat hopkins jones was dragged down his throat.
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really.... interesting.
thank you :good

Stovepipe · Sep 29, 2009

martin0792 said: ↑

Bernard Hopkins took Joe to school, gave him a Boxing lesson.
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:nut

Cobbler · Sep 30, 2009

kirk said: ↑

well then we will have to agree to disagree...

i guess your saying that pretty much Mayweather vs JMM was what... the 5th or 6th most wanted fight in the history of boxing ppv below heavyweight by your reasoning :blood

if you cant see the irrational viewpoint of that then im sorry... cant do anything about that.

Also... if you truly think that most people didnt want to see JC vs Pavlik more then JC vs RJJ at that time... then again, were going to have to agree to disagree, because i specifically remember that fight being a waste of JC's time...

Again, your confusing how big someones name is.... to how much the fight is anticipated and wanted.

Like i said... just because Pac vs Hatton 2 could get 400k or so in a rematch because Pac is a star and hatton has a big name as well... doesnt make the fight ones the fans wanted to see, and doesnt make it a good matchup and fight. that doesnt mean they WONT WATCH IT, but its sure as hell isnt one that is craved.

its pretty common sense imo...
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I think your confusing 'most wanted' (wanted by the largest number of people) with 'most wanted' (preferred fight of a small select number of people presumably selected by yourself). The first is very easy to judge. The most wanted fight is the one the most people would watch. The second is completely subjective and impossible to judge in a true sense. The first is also relevant, as it will make the participants lots of money...

KO Boxing · Sep 30, 2009

Calzaghe-Jones was certainly not a wanted fight. It only did okay (and i stress okay) because of all the promotion it got.

Hopkins was pretty spot on about Jones too.

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