Hagler always called out welterweights, but when a bigger fighter called him out

****in right Leonard waited till Duran had blown up as fat as a pig, Leonard said so himself IDIOTatsch you sound like someone that found a Ring mag (Leonard on the cover) on the floor of a gents toilet & thought wow he's preety, get back too that circus tent as the kids need entertaining:smoke

 

Source?

Dude, the only nuthugger here is you.

 

One of the greatest emperors of Ancient Rome was Hadrian. He put up a wall near some of my ESB colleagues stomping grounds and said, 'this far and no further.' He was both great but was also wise enough to know his limitations.

Hadrian-Hagler was a perfect MW, why muck it up by facing bigger men, when he knew he would not be the destroyer he was at home...?

Hagler gets a bum-rap on this score. He ranks high on a Dominance category, that's for damn sure. He's one of the greatest MWs who ever walked the planet and I am sure that he is satisfied with that.

 

Well Duran sort of helped Leonard is that regard. Leonard did seem to be quite keen once he found out that Duran was out of shape thou.

I find it hard to give Leonard credit for beating Hagler or Duran, but not Hearns or Benitez. Boxing bouts should be won in the ring and not on the negioating table. I do not like Ali that much, but I think he is the best heavyweight as this was proved by beating the best in the ring.

Lets agree to disagree.

 

:good:good:good

 

If you produce a source of Leonard admitting to waiting for Duran to get out of shape, we don't have to disagree on that particular point. Key word being waited.

 

Addie, Magicans rarley reveal there tricks.

Why should we have to have leonards admittance anyway.

I cannot fault Leonard for looking after his own interests but I am not going to be belevalent to his sneak thievery ways. I will make up my own mind regarding how good Leonard was.

Leonard is like one of those kids thats changes the rules of the game during the game to suit themselves and if anyone diagrees they theatern to take their ball and go home. Yes they might have "won" but that does not tell the whole story. After all Terry Noris did beat Leonard?.

 

Why would you even make the comparison though? Hagler hadn't lost a fight in 11 years, destroyed unbeaten knockout specialist Mugabi prior to fighting Leonard, and actually agreed to all of the stipulations put forward by Ray? Let's face it. Hagler lost a fight he should have won, but that doesn't justify discrediting Leonard for achieving one of Boxing's greatest ever comebacks.

The same man knocked out a perfectly healthy and prime time Hearns, and outboxed the boxer, Benitez. Ray was a terrific fighter, better than all of his peers during the 80s for my money, and it's always fashionable to hate a poster boy. I understand.

No source then?

 

Bob Arum once said the reason the Hagler - Duran came about was because he saw them standing side by side at a banquet one night and realized they weren't that too much diference in size.

 

Haglar is a god-like entity that one dare not critisize. And I happen to think that's bull****. Marvin is one of my all time favorites, and in my opinion an ATG at 160. However, he did not rule over a particularly strong diviison, and his best wins were over smaller men who moved up. Furthermore, Spinks would have beat him silly, and Marvin's handlers knew that.

 

Marv's stated reason for not moving up in weight was that his poundage dropped precipitously during the training process. Making the middleweight limit for title fights was never a struggle for him, but an automatic byproduct of his strict dietary and conditioning regimen. (Even today, he could probably get below 160 pounds with little difficulty.)

Beyond that, the middleweight championship was the only undisputed title in boxing through most of his reign, and he ruled over a marquee division with outstanding veteran contenders. That weight class was so densely packed that a number of excellent competitors were not able to break through to earn a title shot. (Frank Fletcher, James "Hard Rock" Green, Dwight Davison, Curtis Parker, Mickey Goodwin, Wilfredo Benitez, and a number of other household names simply couldn't muscle their way through the crowded field to get to Hagler.)

 

Of course no one can critize Hagler for not moving up a full weight class in one jump and taking on a prime Spinks. But for the same reason Leonard shouldn't be critized for not doing it against Hagler. It's pretty simple really.

 

He alluded to this in a Beyond the Glory...He apparently said it a playboy interview that I have never seen to tell you the truth.

Mike Trainer has said things of a similar nature...Ive read several articles written inbetween their first two fights where Leonard is quoted, he wants "the fights as soon as possible" I dont necessarily interpret that as him wanted Duran because he was out of shape...thats just a man keen to avenge his loss. But I guess you could spin that around if you wanted to, taking those other examples into consideration.

 

I'm willing to bet that had Leonard not re-matched Duran immediately, and would fight a so-called "out of shape" Duran 2 years down the line, people would be saying "Leonard waited 2 years for a faded Duran". It's how the game works. Leonard wanted an immediate rematch because he wanted to vindicate himself immediately as possible, like any proud fighter would.

I'll ask you, Rock. Did Duran show any signs in the rematch to suggest he was out of shape?

 

Yes...watch the fights one after another and I think its fairly clear to see.

But even as a huge Duran fan, I dont buy into the rubbishing that goes on about that win. Leonard came in top shape, Duran didnt and quit..Really its the end of it for me. The only reason I will sometimes bring it up though is people just take that fight as it reads on paper and assume that was Roberto as his best..in my eyes it wasnt and I thought it was fairly clear to see.

Personally, this is just my opinion. Roberto reached his Everest when he beat Leonard in Montreal..that was the peak of his career for him. After that I think he just kept fighting to maintain his lifestyle outside of the ring..we never saw Duran as good as that again..for a couple of years he was probably capable of producing performances like that..He probably still had it in him but I think he just didnt want to. His legacy had been more or less solidified, the years of toiling had paid off and now it was about enjoying the spoils.