Hagler always called out welterweights, but when a bigger fighter called him out

Dont forget Addie..that Leonard and people around him admitted this though, people arent exactly just forming this opinion out of nothing, which is often the case...He had a history of being honest about such things.

 

Fair enough. Not the answer I wanted to hear.

I think it's time to re-watch both fights.

 

All I'm asking for is a source. You'll have to forgive my ignorance, but I wasn't born until Duran was busy beating up on a much larger and notoriously tough Iran Barkley. Just a little boy, me.

 

You only got a couple of years on me anyway mate..Roberto was losing to Robbie Simms when I was not long out of the hospital.

See if you can track down the Beyond the Glory episode about Leonard.
As Ive said Ive never seen the playboy interview, though its surely around somewhere..A lot of people, Duran fan or not, seem to agree that something along those lines was said more then once.

 

From my point of view, admittedly not having witnessed or read these supposed interviews, isn't it normal for a such a frenetic and explosive match-up to see a sequel relatively quickly? If Duran wasn't in shape, why didn't he kindly refuse to take the fight as early as he did? All of these excuses seem so coincidental too me, perhaps I'm missing something.

Would you expect Ray Leonard to say "no" if asked whether or not he felt he could defeat a peak form Roberto Duran?

 

You gotta know Duran to see why he would never refuse a fight on those grounds..He was also offered 8-10 million (i think) to take the fight when they wanted it. And thats a big arse purse to turn down, like 20-24 million in todays money.
As has been well put by several very respected posters on this forum..Roberto was just one of those fighters that truly believed he didnt need to train consistently to beat people. He was a natural fighter in every sense of the word, thats how he started his fighting career, just knocking over whoever challenged him on the street. That was his mindset his whole career.

 

In which case, if he's prepared to have such a mindset, then forgive me for not defending his every defeat. He brings it on himself, if what you say is indeed true.

 

Those are your personal conclusions, and you're welcome to have them. But does that mean that if someone claims Leonard defeated a top-fit peak Duran in their second fight, that you will not correct him?

Defending is for fans of boxers, not for people that at least try and be objective, get to the truth of the matter -- some people are "for" or "against" no matter the circumstances.

It is clear to me personally that Duran was in bad physical shape for the rematch. He made weight, which was probably the main concern, and looked relatively well, but his conditioning was poor, he was sluggish, had much less energy and his reflexes seemed off. I also believe Leonard shrewdly took advantage of Duran's habits by rematching quickly, luring Duran and those around him with a big purse. Leonard then executed a exploitative gameplan and was pulling ahead to what I assume would have been a comfortable win when Duran walked out of the ring claiming stomach cramps. These supposedly were due to dieretics.

My personal conclusions: Duran was unfit. This is his responsibility. Leonard offered a quick rematch. This was clever. His management accepted. This was greedy. Duran walked out of the ring due to dieretics. I don't believe this. I think he did it out of immense frustration, the Edwin Viruet kind, but while feeling powerless and losing at the same time. Like Superman without his powers. I think he didn't realize what he'd done until he got back to Panama.

As far as the Duran vs Leonard match best vs best match-up goes, the first fight is a lot more telling than the second, though Leonard was young at 24. The second fight will always be one with an asterisk, though one of Duran's own making.

I personally don't blame Leonard for doing it. Sadly, pre-fight negotiations are part of this league-less game, and doing well in them often results in an edge on fight-night.

 

Thanks for that. :good

I still feel all of the reports about Duran being in bad shape is designed to discredit the poster boy of 80's Boxing. I will say though, it seems to hold a bit more weight than claims about his conditioning in the Hearns and Benitez fights. Even Duran can get beat by the better man it would seem.

 

I've never been called that before:scaredas:

I've just read yer back & forth with gesta/whatarock & a few others, nice to see a leonard fan take an interest in the what/where & why's between duran & leoanard, over a period of time on here you'll maybe able to learn to cut to the phyci of both fighters as men, which is just as important in analyzing these 2 great warriors as to what makes legendary champions of them both.

So you're 20 years old, what made you take a shine to sugar ray? any member of your family a leonard fan? I only found out my 26yd old son was a closet Leonard fan about 6 months ago after he fell out with his sister, so women being women she ratted him out

 

It's been dealt with on this board at least twice before...Duran gaining weight and Leonard striking while the iron is hot. I don't know all the facts, or even most of them, so I'll pass on this one.
But if posters knowledgeable on this scenario see this thread, you should have a legitimate answer.

 

I can only imagine the scene that must have caused...

 

Cotto20/Monzon/StBoxing/BoxingGloves1 are clearly the same guy.

Same threads about Monzon/Hagler moving up to 175.

Same threads about boxers turning pro late.

Same massive amount of posts in short amount of time.

Same constant fantasy matchups.

Same double posting on british/Classic forum.

Explains his hate for me :good I exposed him

 

I'm 20 years of age. I have a lot to learn about this sport, so of course I'm open to other people's views.

I appreciate the artistry in Leonard's work during his peak days. I think he stands as one of the most complete fighters to ever have laced up a pair of gloves, even despite his inactivity, he compiled an impressive record full of the who's who of the 1980s. You seem more concerned with talking about Leonard's media personality than how he actually presented himself inside the squared circle. Never made much sense to me, that. You're not alone.

A big Sugar Ray Leonard fan I am not, I'm more of a Latino guy actually. There's something about their warrior spirit and overall attitude that just moves me. Marco Antonio Barrera is my favorite fighter ever, alongside Alexis Arguello, Michael Spinks, Michael Carbajal, and others. I just find myself supporting the underdog as a neutral, and Ray is very much an underdog on the Classic forum in my estimation.

Sorry to hear about your son, Duran. You'd probably have preferred to find out he was closet gay.

 

i agree.i respect hagler and monzon because they dominated their own divisions and didn't move up a weight ,cherry pick an opponent and move on.

hagler wouldn't have beaten the best light heavy at the time anyway.the best being spinks.
back in the early 70's jose napoles stepped up to middle and got wasted by monzon.monzon didn't bother stepping up to fight bob foster ,he knew what would have happened.foster was head and shoulders above the other light heavies and stepped up to fight ali and frazier.bad move.