Joe Louis vs. Vitali Klitschko

That's bull****, but we is kool.......:thumbsup

MR.BILL:scaredas:

 

I don't know how many of you guys have seen Joe Louis fight, but I can assure you that Vitali Klitschko would not have much of a chance in the ring against a prime Joe Louis...in my opinion. I wish that fight was possible, because, evidently, I could make a mint betting on Joe against younger guys!

 

A washed up Orlin Norris does not come close to comparing to a prime Bob Pastor. Pastor had serious wheels and serious skills.

 

Ok I'll play your game. That is still THREE more wins over hall of fame heavyweights than Vitali has. What very good fighter has vitali ever beaten?

 

Klit has NO CHANCE against Louis? JESUS H. CHRIST!! I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that crap...... Cheers........

SR.BILL

 

Vitali Klitschko gets little respect from America cuz he is the current "In Thing" but not an American citizen who can speak the lingo the right way to please.......... Its okay, cuz yrs from now people will see the light and V.K. will get his just do from North America........

MR.BILL

 

I'd bet if you spoke to Peter Marciano he'd tell you that while Joe Louis was great, he'd never beat a 1951 / '52 version of Rocky, had Joe Louis been 10 yrs younger than when they actually fought in the ring in 1951...... To me, that's utter bull****, but we'll never really know for sure....... STILL! I'm guessing that a 1940 / '42 version of Louis eats Rocky Marciano alive in the ring.......

MR.BILL

 

Sure, I agree Vitali will be harder to hit than the big guys Louis fought; no problem there.
Saying he would have to step in on Vitali and would be countered is fine, but he could also step in and counter Vitali. That works both ways.

I agree due to Vitali's size, strength etc. he could give Louis problems. Vitali would give a lot of good fighters problems. I certainly don't see him having it all his own way with Louis though.
I certainly don't see a case of Vitali hitting Louis at will, with little or nothing coming back from Joe. I'd stake my life on that.

 

:huh

Plenty of non-Americans don't rate Vitali that highly, and plenty of Americans do rate him highly. I honestly don't think nationality or trends play a part in this.

 

I don't see why he can't win a decision. Seriously, I can't. The size difference is an issue sure, but just as it can be an asset to the bigger man, it can also be a problem, especially against a quick-handed sharpshooter like Louis.
Carrying 50 pounds less means (logically) that Louis won't gas as easily. Yeah, I know Vitali threw 800 punches against Arreola, but he was doing exactly as he pleased in there. Chris wasn't putting any meaningful pressure on him whatsoever. I can only assume a fight with Louis would be far more demanding.
People made a big deal of Louis' slow feet, but his feet were comparatively slow only against the smaller fleet-footed guys like Conn or Farr. He could move in on a guy pretty quickly when he needed to, actually.
Once again, I can only assume he would be vastly better in this area than plodders like Peter or Arreola, in a fight against Vitali.

As for Louis' adaptability in a fight...I agree. But how many fighters have shown genuine adaptability in a single fight? Even Ali at times seemed stuck for ideas in the ring. Has Vitali shown adaptability in the ring?
Whatever the case, despite Louis' flaw in this regard, his plan A was so good, he rarely needed a plan B.
Schmeling was the only one to fully exploit a weakness in Joe. (Later corrected.) Others had some or partial success in a given area, but not enough to make the difference.

 

I'll meet you halfway and say that if Louis loses, it's not because he's 5 inches shorter. Fair enough? :good

 

The first part has nothing to do with it and the second part is absolutely not going to happen. The Klits get little respect due their relative pedestrian athleticism and their inability to destroy what is apparently "C" class/level opposition parading as this era's heavyweights.

The US sport fan doesn't care what country you are from nor would a 67% "white" country be unwilling to welcome with open arms any TREMENDOUS "white" athlete from anywhere on the globe if they can demonstrate their talent and perform. This country is about entertainment and it lauds excellence PERIOD.

The problem for the Klits is that they only appear to be average to good athletes who happen to be better conditioned than the scrubs not participating in other sports and always effectively larger/longer/taller than their inadequate opposition.

This country worships sports/athletics and is dominated by the big 3 (football/basketball/baseball). This includes football and basketball in college/universities which is a big business. The road to opportunity for many has been by excelling in these sports to get a subsidized education at a minimum and to make the pros and ample financial remuneration at the max.

The Klits would be admired and followed IF they were the ultimate in athletic capability for their size and proved it by dominating a division full of like-sized and skilled opposition. It doesn't require an extensive knowledge of boxing history for the average person to look at the fighters in today's division and note how unfit, unskilled, and limited they appear and are (or if somewhat skilled then untalented). Meanwhile, EVERYDAY, EVERY WEEK, we watch incredibly large, talented athletes in the other sports.

It isn't the Klit's fault that the division is so poor and filled with the scrubs that couldn't make it in the other 3 sports in any lifetime. But, that is generally the truth.

There are literally hundreds of large sized athletes that have amazing power, speed, quickness, aggression, and aggregate athleticism that would undeniably translate into effective challengers to either prove the Klit's worth or their rather pedestrian comparative athleticism. It is unfortunate that this period may end up being a historical anomaly in which boxing was forsaken by the US. The Klits may end up retired before the cycle comes around again.

The end result is that there will be a multitude of athletes of "Klit-size" participating in professional boxing over time. I believe instead of seeing guys like Julias Peppers, Albert Haynesworth, J-u-s-t-i-n (can't explain why ESB tries to bleep his name) Tuck, Ray Lewis, Haloti Ngata, etc., etc. in football uniforms or similar names in pro basketball there will be some that inevitably return to pursue boxing and their insane athleticism will put the Klits in a less forgiving light historically.

The US sport scene isn't stupid. It simply isn't impressed by what it sees. IT is the very existence of athletes standing anywhere from 6'5" to nearly 7'0" that move like a baseball shortstop, that jump to incredible heights, that sprint with amazing acceleration, and that hit with enormous aggression and power that the Klits are unable to make much of an impression. Perhaps you see something you want to see and believe. You should take a look at the many huge talents in the US and ask yourself if the Klits truly matchup or are they merely the best of the leftovers? Do you really see great UNPARALLELED nimbleness, agility, quickness, hand and foot speed, and power in the Klits? Really?

The comparison is clear to you that current athletes have some obvious advantages over the past based upon your posts. There is a lot of truth to that (it can also be said that current athletes just like everything in life is built upon the shoulders of those that came before - so that comparisons between eras is a rather pointless and futile endeavor - a bit of the chicken and the egg I suppose). But, there is an (inexplicable or maybe not) overzealous willingness on ESB to ignore the obvious IMMENSE talent being channeled away from boxing in these past few generations. The Klit's lack of US popularity is likely the correct reaction to what we see. They are good. They are decent. They are better than their comp. They are well conditioned. They are just not exceptional and we know exceptional exists.

 

That was certainly an interesting and well thought-out post.

It can't be denied that at least in the heavyweight class, there is a distinct absence of talent at the moment. The Klitschko's are head and shoulder above the rest. Partly because they are pretty good, and partly because the division is pretty poor.

I'm aghast that fighters like Peter, Arreola and others had absolutely no answer to the Klitshcko jab. I mean, no answer at all.
One can say Vitali is just that good and awkward and there is some truth to that.
I do think though that it is also down to, as you say, simply a lack of talent in the division, and a serious lack of good coaching.
The average heavyweight today is a slow, immobile plodder with a heavily padded record, imo.
That can't be held against the brothers, but it must be taken into account when comparing them to past heavyweight champions.

 

How about: If Louis struggles, then being 5 inches shorter at least was one of several factors that caused it?

I like your well-written post, but i completely disagree with this statement.

Every country loves their own athletes, and America is no exception. No one had ever heard about cycling and laughed about it, seven years ago. Then Lance Armstrong turned out to be one of the greatest ever by winning the Tour the France six or so times. Now i'm not saying it's becoming a big sport in the US or anything, but seeing reporters from the US when he made his comeback was pretty much unprecedented.

Look at the amount of hype Arreola got, just for being American. Yes, he's exciting, but David Haye is even more exciting and scores cleaner knockouts. But we both know that he doesn't get 10% of the attention that Chris got. The channel directors know what sells, and American athletes sells much better than foreign ones.


Again, this is no criticism nor a knock on America, but just the way things are. If not only American heavyweight talent remains absent, but also in the lower divisions, then i fear boxing altogether will die in the US, because too few want to see it.

 

Vitali is a good boxer but there's no way I see him beating Joe Louis.
Louis can outpoint him or knock him out.

When was the last time Vitali even fought a guy who was in shape ?