Joe Louis vs. Vitali Klitschko

LOOK! V.K. will not get his credit or due just yet because he's still the guy on the top of the hill in 2009.... Many critics refuse to praise a top-notch fighter who is bathing in the spotlight as the world currently turns....... V.K. is the goods and historians will eventually wake up and smell the pot of coffee that Klit has made, but it'll take a while.... I rate V.K. as an ATG no matter who says different.......

I was NOT around back in 1941............ I really do NOT know how people felt about Joe Louis as champion during that time.... BUT! I'll bet the Acura that Louis had his skeptics and detractors in 1941, just like Vitali Klit has his critics today......

Back in '41, fans dreamt of what would've happened between Louis and Jack Johnson, or against Jack Dempsey..... I'm sure back in '41 a lotta' fans picked either Johnson or Dempsey to hammer Louis in a time machine.... I'm sure that drove the Louis fans nuts, as well......

SO! Trying to convince many folks here today that V.K. would hammer Joe Louis into the ground is a tuff sell.... But that's just a sign of the times...... After sleeping on it for a few days, I no longer take it personal when I read people calling Vitali Klit a bum or stiff because I know deep down these people are full of **** to the max...... Cheers...

MR.BILL:hey:good:admin:rasta:hat

 

Yeah, if V.K. carries on like he doing for another 10-15 fights we could start comparing him to Larry Holmes maybe, and if he beats Wladimir Klitschko (or whoever beats Wlad) as well then he's actually worthy of being compared to the former undisputed champions, like Joe Louis.

 

I hear that, Mango......... BUT! I see no difference in greatness between Holmes and Louis............ I think due to Holmes' speed, skill, savy and good power that he too would be a tuff cookie or perhaps even a nightmare for Louis in a time machine....... Stylewise, along with Holmes' 6' 3 1/2" of height and solid 212 prime pounds, would be a tall order for Louis to overcome........ In a time machine, I'm not sure Louis could beat Holmes.........

I got Holmes # 2 on my ATG list of champs....... Just behind Ali......:deal

Now, yes, Louis displayed more class by word of mouth in his heyday than the bitter but still great boxer that Holmes displayed....... However, words don't win fights.... Words win fans over....... Louis has the bigger fan following without a doubt........


MR.BILL

 

Well, Holmes can be placed above Joe Louis if you like, that's your choice.
My point is that Holmes became an ATG without being undisputed champion AND without always taking on the most worthy rivals, often fighting untested chumps like Vitali is doing.
But he did do so for a long consecutive period of activity. And none of his rivals were a big thorn in his side for very long, everyone seemed to lose to everyone else. Vitali's problem is he hasn't dominated through a long string of real world title fights, took 4 years off, and IMPORTANTLY he's rivalled by his brother THE RING'S champion, Wlad, who has been winning against similar opposition and HIGHER ranked opposition this year and all the time Vitali was off.

To be an ATG you need to fight the best around, OR be undisputed champion, OR dominate for a long time, OR something tangible like that.
Vitali beat Corrie Sanders and Danny Williams then forfeited his number one position, and since he's been back he's won 3 fights and no word of him fighting the best guy out there.
Lennox Lewis is right when he says "Why's he calling me out - let him fight his brother." ....... and something Lennox wont say, Lennox would be a DISGRACEFUL opponent, and fortunately it will never happen.

Vitali might be too old to establish himself as an ATG now, unless he takes on everyone and beats them, esp. his brother.

 

so what do you know about louis that enables him to reach vitalis chin fast and hard enough to stop him (not even saying vitali gotta granite chin) ?
o will louis go fo d body ?
and if so , what will prevent vitali's big hand reaching louis' head ?

what can i know about louis ? i saw part of his fights with charles and walcott , maybe even marciano also. maybe other parts also.
and i hate watching highlights btw. most of what i saw was when watching complete fights.
he wasn't james toney. james toney's fights are worth seeing.
beeing the bigger guy and then utilizing your jab does not necessarilly require Ph.D. , he also was not roy jones.
what's the difference between louis and that word they use .. plodder ?
plodders also stalk their opponents get hit on the way and then land or not their punch. being a big plodder can surely make it easier.
so many could have dealt with louis : holyfield , qawi (not so sure here , but don't discount him) , foreman , ali , tyson , maybe even frazier.
maybe even a prime o'neil bell. in fact i give mr. bell bigger chance against louis than against holmes really. louis had the worse chin of the two , was the smaller of the two , him and bell could have been explosive i know it could have gone either way.
toney would have done to any version of louis what he did to holyfield and jirov. the thing with toney is that even when he does get hit , he recuperates and gives you back well (seen well in the johnson fight , not sayin he won it). and yes , i know there was such a thread.

 

You make a good point Mr. Bill.

It's rare that the contemporary heavyweight champion gets his due, and I can accept that to a degree this is happening to the Klitschko brothers as well.
In time, perspectives may change. That's partly why I'm trying to keep an open mind about the Klits.

As much as I moan sometimes about the brothers, I have to say here and now thank God for the Klits.
The way I see it, whatever their true abilities as fighters, they are at least keeping up a standard befitting that of the Heavyweight Champion of the World.
They come into the ring in great shape, they come in prepared and they take care of business.
If not for Vitali, we could have had Chris Arreola as Heavyweight champion, something that in my book would have been a minor disaster.
Arreola as champ?
The greats like Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis would spin in their graves.
It would be an embarrasment to boxing.
So thankfully Vitali put that bum in his place.

After all, this is not some hum-drum junior title that we're talking about, but THE title.

Thank you, Wlad and Vitali. :good

 

Boswell is rubbish though. I saw that 'fight' he had with Cisse Salif...:dead

Okay, Salif is a really tough nut and makes people look bad, but Boswell would be easy meat for either Klitschko.

 

You know what I miss Magoo? Seeing a heavyweight with actual skill. I'm not talking about the Klits here (they're excluded) but seriously, the likes of what we've got in the division now are hopeless.

On the undercard of the Klitschko - Arreola fight, there was the Cedric Boswell v Cisse Salif bout which sucked, and Jonathon Banks fought some guy, forget his name, and that too was pretty bad.
Okay, Banks is just coming up from the lower divisions, but he's staking a claim at heavyweight.
Banks seems to have a bit of promise, but he had no idea what a jab is. The jab is the most basic punch in boxing.
He was loading up with power shot after power shot, and missing pretty badly a lot of the time.
The few times he did use the jab, it was more of a flick than a punch. What the hell is his trainer doing with this guy??

I've seen it too many times now...two fat guys plodding (or wobbling if you prefer) around the ring, just making for horrible action devoid of any real ability.
Olandier Solis? :rofl He's a bum. Another fat plodder.

David Haye looks decent, but it's still too early to tell. In any event, relying on a cruiserweight with a questionable chin to create some excitement really tells me how bad things are.

I used to love heavyweight boxing....we were spoilt for choice in the 90's for good fights, and the 80's fat heavies suddenly don't look so fat now. At least they had true skills.

I fear for this division when the Klits retire or get beaten, really I do. It's become a barren wasteland of forty-plus year old 'prospects', Burger King patty flippers and guys who were too useless to make the grade for NBA or NFL college teams.

:twisted::twisted::twisted:

PS-I'll check out Chambers in the meantime.

 

Unforgiven,

Larry Holmes was great..... No doubt........ It does NOT matter if "The Homer" never fought "Dokes, Page or Pinky Thomas." YES!! I too, wanted them fights to happen... Hell, I was drooling for the '84 "Holmes-Coetzee" fight that went to hell cuz of some shitty promotional problem... Still, all in all, Holmes is great........

Holmes' defenses against "Weaver, Shavers, LeDoux, Berbick, L. Spinks, Snipes, Cooney, Cobb, Spoon, Smith, Bey, Carl Williams & Mike Spinks" were quality events that took place from 1979 to 1985..... People can scoff at "LeDoux, Cobb & Dave Bey" all they want, but these dudes were in-shape and ready to rumble when they were hammered by Holmes...... Holmes had a worthy and tuff reign for 7 yrs.........

MR.BILL

 

I remember 1941, in some ways better than I remember yesterday.

I can't speak for everyone, everywhere, but I can say that Joe was greatly respected around where I lived. Everyone around me knew they were witnessing greatness when they saw him fight. Joe Louis fought the best fighters in his era, and won the World Heavyweight Championship. Unfortunately, so far, neither of those things can be said about Vitali Klitschko. Even Primo Carnera had those 2 things going for him.

I would never call Vitali a bum! He's a damn good fighter! I would never call Jack Dempsey a bum either! Jack Dempsey is often criticized for "ducking" the top ranked heavyweight in his era (Wills). Unless something changes in the future, I think Vitali's legacy should suffer the same way Dempsey's does. Although I fully understand his reason for "ducking" his brother, facts are still facts.

 

I never ever wanne see "Wlad vs. Vitali" go at it in the ring, other than sparring...... No real fight............. Loving bros. do NOT make for a good fight...... The Baer's never fought each other and neither did the Spinks bros.......... Not a good idea........... Nope..

MR.BILL

 

Aside from what the detractors or "K" haters wanna state, as far as greatness, very few champs from any division of boxing bring the attitude, dedication & desire that the "K" brothers bring to the fight game...... That alone says wonders about the Klitschko's..... Plus, you gotta' love them two Ph.D degrees that they own..... Jesus.......

MR.BILL

 

Maybe, if I dig hard enough, I can find some way that Jack and Harry were related. THAT would explain it!!! Hmmm...

 

I feel your pain

Yes, I to miss the days when our top heavys consisted of Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Razor Ruddock, Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis..

Check out Chambers. He's nothing terribly impressive, but he's a good solid fighter with decent fundamentals.

 

frankenfrank i am not going to argue your points as i have far more worth while things to do like suck glass through a straw. but neither am i going to call you names and put you down you are entiltled to your opinions to say i disagree with you is putting it very nicely .all the best:good