He has to be a serious old fart, too.............. '41 was 68 yrs ago........... Jesus........ MR.BILL:scaredas:
Yes, I saw Joe fight live in 1941...at the Polo Grounds. I was 17. I didn't have the pleasure of seeing him again until 1946. I enlisted in the army in 1942 and never ran into Joe while in there.
Djanders is even older than me,unfortunately I never saw Louis fight in the flesh, he is one up on us all,imo.
Djanders...it must have been for either the first Conn fight or...damn...I forget the other, sorry. He had two fights at the Polo ground in '41 if I recall. You raised an interesting point earlier, that when you watched Louis fight live, you knew you were witnessing greatness in action. How many other heavyweight champs that you've watched since have made you feel that way? (I mean at the time when they were the champ.)
Mr. Bill nails it. When Louis was active and just after he retired in the 50's most boxing historians who saw the fighters from Corbett to Louis felt Louis was behind Corbett, Fitz, Jeffries, Johnson, and Dempsey. It was only after a time when those watching boxing from 1897-1960 died out that Louis rose to prominence in the rankings. This makes you wonder just how good some of the above fighters were. I do not think Nat was biased against an era. Nat had ever reason to love Louis, as he was Jewish as Louis win over Schmeling to Jewish Americans was a special achievement. In fact Jews of the time rooted for Louis over Abe Simon who was Jewish in the title fight between the two. Once Vitali retires, his stock will go up. You can see it with Lennox Lewis. Before he retired, I felt Lewis was a top 5 all time guy. Most historians types did not, but now that Lewis has been retired for a while, he's moving up the charts with a bullet.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.. So 68+17=85....Well, God bless you. My Grandfather served at Pearl Harbor back in the day. He was sunning himself on the deck of the US Chew, ( spelling ) when he heard the air raid sirens going off. He was an engine room operator for the Navy. He got below deck and got the engines running so that the chew could escape from the harbor. As soon as he was below deck, the entire vessel rumbled from the explosion of the Arizona. He ended up getting locked in the engine room for 3 days at sea with a wounded man who died on him.. When my wife and I went to visit Pearl Harbor on our Honeymoon, we read the list of casualties on board the Chew. There was only one fatality mentioned ( the man in the engine room with Grand dad. ) Incidentally, Grandfather was an amateur boxer for his highschool team in St. Louis, Missouri. EDIT: Ah, here it is. And I had the spelling correct as well. The Chew is #106 on the side of the hull. Here is the WIKI link.. Apparently, it was medium size cruiser. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USSChewDD106withDD139.jpg This content is protected
His stocks probably will move up. The thing is, it depends where you'd rank him now, basically where his starting point from here on in is. I'm not sure using Lennox as a measuring stick is a great idea, personally. He accomplished a lot more than Vitali has so far, and was undisputed champ as well. Vitali has done well to come back at an advanced age and become a titleist again. However, from a legacy point of view there are a few stumbling blocks: 1) Vitali is not (and probably never will be) an undisputed champ. 2) It's unlikely he will dominate the division like a Holmes did. 3) People will point to the calibre of opposition. 4) They will note that he could not wrench the torch from lineal champ Lewis when he had the chance. Neither Holmes nor Louis faced stellar opposition...they faced the best that was out there*, but one could not call it stellar opposition, but they dominated for a very long time. Holmes wasn't the undisputed champ, but everyone recognized him as the best heavyweight in the world for 95% of his reign. With due respect to Vitali, but he might not even be the best heavyweight in his family. We'll have to see how far Vitali goes. People will rightfully point out the four years he lost and ask what might have been, but 'what might have beens' isn't 'what is'. It's speculation. So while I do expect his stocks to rise, a lot depends what happens between now and his exit from the sport. In a sense though, he is in a win-win situation. If he loses his very next fight, a lot of people will say that he was old. If he keeps on winning...well the legacy benefits are obvious. *I talk crap. Larry did avoid certain guys. He did reign for a long time though.
Lord only knows I'll never see age 85........... At age 42, I already take meds for blood pressure and cholesterol.... However, I'm also way over weight like an outta shape "Toney & Duran." Doc says I gotta drop 50 pounds without argument.... I'm working on it--slowly.......... MR.BILL
And Larry Holmes was undisputed champ when? Please to be naming those dates. In an era of giants he has damn near never lost a round. His KO record is the greatest on record. He is fighting bigger, stronger fighters, punch for punch, than any other era than the prime 90's. FACT. But the old timer myiopians will not look at Zanon, Frank, M. Frazier, Lucien Rodriguez, R. Cobb, Cooney, LeDoux, Snipes, Leroy Jones and a thoroughly depleted Ali. Great defenses all.