Joe Louis vs. Vitali Klitschko

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KOTF, Aug 17, 2009.

  1. Pusnuts

    Pusnuts Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,432
    Likes Received:
    7
    Joe Louis cant beat Vitali Klitschko, hes a cruiserweight without a good chin (taking shots from light-heavyweights and cruiserweights doesnt mean a whole lot in todays HW div). Louis was a good boxer but is really going to outbox VK? Without getting knocked out? Cant see it

    The fact that a complete bum like Carnera became champ and beat some decent contenders says little for the old-timers, unless basically everyone he fought took dives for the mob lol

    If Vitali was born in USA 80 years ago and called Ezra Cummings or something wholesome he would be the baddest man who ever fought and his "awkward" style would have all manner of hyperbolic invicibilities attached to it
     
  2. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    19,297
    Likes Received:
    7,047
    I agree with much of that actually. From the start of my posting in this thread I've admitted that the size difference between the two would be an issue.
    Vitali is a big, skilled heavyweight with an awkard but effective style. My big question is whether he would be able to do the things he does against a guy of Louis' caliber.
     
  3. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    19,297
    Likes Received:
    7,047
    Here we go again...:-((
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    97,745
    Likes Received:
    29,126
    Sharkey had very good head movement when he was "on",he knew how to" roll "his way in.Sharkey would not plod towards Vitali with his gloves up over his face,coming forward in a straight line ,head up , static, and hittable.

    A motivated Golota would give both the Klits problems imo.
    Clearly the Bros Grim are the best out there but that is like the" one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind."
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    61,792
    Likes Received:
    46,490
    Sharkey- at his best which only happened every 5 fights or so- goes at most 6 rounds if he even steps in the ring with a Klitschko.
     
  6. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    28,518
    Likes Received:
    82
    Vitali is far to slow & his defences are far too weak to stop the pin point brutal power & speed combination that Louis would bring.

    Vitali has a good chin but thats not enough vs Joe Louis, you need a good chin + a good defence + some sort of speed & movement yourself to even have a prayer.

    Louis TKO4 Vitali
     
  7. Pusnuts

    Pusnuts Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,432
    Likes Received:
    7
    I think Jim Corbett would beat Ali by TKO2 because he was born 80 years beforehand
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    97,745
    Likes Received:
    29,126
    Some good chins
    Conn
    Galento
    Uzcudun
    B Baer
    M Baer
    Braddock.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    97,745
    Likes Received:
    29,126
    And kod by a middleweight.
     
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    61,792
    Likes Received:
    46,490
    You seem like a nice guy, but have you ever seemed Vitali fight? He has imaculate defens, especially against shorter, leaded-footed fighters. They never close the distance. Don't believe me, look at the scorecards to his fights.
     
  11. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Messages:
    42,723
    Likes Received:
    269
    Vitali's stopping picking on the Obese and Elderly to dig up dead men for his latest title challengers?
     
  12. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    19,297
    Likes Received:
    7,047
    Nobody on this forum would be mad enough to say that. You really think this is all about sentimentality?

    The guy in your avatar is the poster boy of the 'more is more' mentality prevalent today.
    Tua had some really great God-given talents, but he squandered them through a slovenly, lazy attitude to training. He added 20 pounds or more to his short, squat frame over the course of his career. Where did this help him?

    The problem I suspect, lies partly in the lack of good coaching around today. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that when a sport is at the height of it's popularity, you will have a huge talent pool to draw from. This goes for the athletes and the trainers. There will be more of them. Gyms will flourish because everyone wants to be a fighter. They will come from far and wide to learn. The good, the bad and the ugly...they will come.

    When that sport's popularity dwindles, you have less of everything. Less of a talent pool, fewer good trainers and fewer gyms where people can learn their trade.
    Boxing now may be more globalised than in Louis' time, but the places where boxers can actually learn from the best in the business is concentrated in very tiny pockets - usually in the US.

    Name me a trainer today the caliber of a Jack Blackburn, a Mannie Seamon, a Ray Arcel, an Eddie Futch, a Whitey Bimstein, a Charlie Goldman, an Angelo Dundee...they are very few and far between now. These guys were artisans that knew about as much as anyone could know about this intricate, skill-based sport.

    I'll say something else: the emphasis on size and strength prevalent today is a direct result of two things:

    1) Weight training and performance enhancers
    2) The 'quick fix' mentality in our soceity

    Coinciding with the dawn of the 80's and the sudden explosion of freely available steroids and focus on weight-training, was the slow but sure decline of boxing as a mainstream sport.
    Some of the old trainers, the masters, had died or retired. They were slowly being replaced or assisted with so-called strength gurus and conditioning coaches.
    This trend has continued through the 90's and today.

    Modern strength and conditioning training is all fine and well, and if applied right it could be very beneficial.
    But the more I see the state of current heavyweights, the more I realise that the skill part of the sport is being horribly neglected in favour of
    strength-based training and so-called conditioning training.
    Why?
    Most likely because many of the trainers today just don't know any better. They don't have the knowledge or the experience or the mentality to spend hours and hours focussing purely on the skill part of the profession.

    Sam Peter is a goliath of a man; big and strong and sturdy. But he had almost no clue on how to actually box. He is crude and raw, even at the veteran stage of his career.
    Same with Arreola, same with dozens of heavyweights.
    This is no doubt mostly a result of poor training and an over-emphasis on getting bigger and heavier.

    Perhaps if Rahman spent more time learning defensive techniques instead of focussing on adding 10 more pounds to his bench press, he would not have lost to Lewis.
     
  13. Fighting Weight

    Fighting Weight Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    15,428
    Likes Received:
    3
    Interesting question. For me it's Ali, Holmes, Tyson and Foreman (from my lifetime)

    Even though I'm a Lewis fan I never held him in the high esteem of those guys for some reason, even though he's higher than Tyson on most peoples ATG heavies list I still think prime Tyson was the most unbeatable heavy I ever saw live. I never saw prime Ali fight live though, before anyone jumps in with the Cleveland Williams stats.
     
  14. Fighting Weight

    Fighting Weight Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    15,428
    Likes Received:
    3
    Nicely put :good
     
  15. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2008
    Messages:
    21,116
    Likes Received:
    110
    Some of the recent posts utterly boggle my mind............. Anyway, where are we at here???

    MR.BILL