Joe Fraziers defense.

Tyson did not have the exceptional defence people like to think he had, he had tremendous footspeed that allowed him to close distance fast without getting nailed, he also did not have to break you down like Frazier so he could sit back and pick his spots when attack and take less chances because he had that brutal power.

Tony Tucker nailed him with the uppercuts and inside right hands.

 

Wow I've never really seen things that way, but it makes a lot of sense now that I think about it.

 

Bada bing. Great analysis.

 

I tend to disagree. You're correct that his ability to close the distance made him very hard to tag cleanly, but he showed some remarkably adept defensive skill too.

Two instances come to mind:

1) There was a sequence in the Green fight where Mitch threw what must have been 8-12 consecutive punches, and Tyson evaded the lot of them all while coming forward.

2) In the Tillis fight, Tyson went down on his haunches (technically illegal) and evaded two or three punches, and then came up and avoided another Tillis punch...to me that showed, if nothing else, a remarkable ability to slip punches. I suppose you'd have to see it, 'cause it looked a lot more impressive than I described it.
I honestly think he was taking the **** out of James.

Think about it; how many times was he tagged really cleanly with a punch...maybe four, five times? (In his heyday)

 

I tend to disagree. You're correct that his ability to close the distance made him very hard to tag cleanly, but he showed some remarkably adept defensive skill too.

Two instances come to mind:

1) There was a sequence in the Green fight where Mitch threw what must have been 8-12 consecutive punches, and Tyson evaded the lot of them all while coming forward.

2) In the Tillis fight, Tyson went down on his haunches (technically illegal) and evaded two or three punches, and then came up and avoided another Tillis punch...to me that showed, if nothing else, a remarkable ability to slip punches. I suppose you'd have to see it, 'cause it looked a lot more impressive than I described it.
I honestly think he was taking the **** out of James.

Think about it; how many times was he tagged really cleanly with a punch...maybe four, five times? (In his heyday)




Green was throwing dont hit me punches at Tyson though, plus we are talking about Mitch Green here.

Tucker landed a combination on Mike Tyson when Tyson was showing his contempt for Tucker, he landed many uppercuts and inside right hands to.

Tillis also landed the uppercut.

Frank Bruno nailed him with left hook and hurt him.


Mike Tyson could get nailed in mid bob, when he was moving to the left or right he was fine but the point where he came up and his head was central he was vulnerable to get hit because he had no where to move, that is why Tyson's head movement is overrated, when you fight with your weight mainly on the front foot you dont have the option of stepping back and countering with the right hand or swaying back away from the punch, becase you cant shift your weight quick enough.

Mike Tyson got the respect of a lot of opponents because of his power/reputation, he could bum rush these lesser fighters and not get nailed, that said he did not have some spectacular defence that people like to make out.

 

To be fair though it is fundamentat to Tyson's style that you have to put yourself there to be hit. Bonecrusher Smith only landed one clean punch on Tyson in theirentire bout.

Now for my money you dont evade the punches of any world class fighter that effectivley without qualifying as being prety good defensivley.

 

Green, whatever his worth as a fighter, had fast hands. I can't think of many other fighters that could have avoided so many punches in such a short timeframe.
The examples you've offered kind of illustrate my point...there just aren't many examples of Tyson getting hit cleanly, pre-1990, and not everyone fought a timid fight.
Even the Bruno hook that he copped was because of him winding up to throw his own punch...hey, it's a fight and you're going to get hit sometimes.
I'm not claiming Tyson had some sort of imprenetrable defense. It wasn't perfect by any means, but for a short come-forward fighter he got hit remarkably few times by anything meaningful, and it wasn't all down to timidity of the opponent or ridiculous reflexes. (Although those did play a role.)

As to your analysis...I see your point, but being 5'10" tall with a 72" inch reach, Tyson didn't really have that luxury of stepping back and countering.
The side-to-side weave was perfect for his physical dimensions because he could maintain distance, pressure you ,and still counter. The footwork needed for that was pretty unreal at times, and not everyone can do it.

As for the swaying part you mention...he used it at least a little in the Tubbs fight.

 

:good

 

You're missing a key factored element with the Foreman scenario.

Your points are valid, however Frazier was more open to the uppercut/hooks than he was straighter punches. And yo can easily see how in his bob & weave. Specifically the uppercut, and of course, those were George's bread and butter.

Nobody has seemed to mention that, though.

 

Well look at Tyson/Duran for your answer to that, rarely did either man eat flush leather in their primes

Fraziers defense is below average, it isnt a strength and thats why every world class fighter landed on him at will. Ali/Foreman/Quarry/Bonavena etc etc. His defense was very predictable and very open at times. He often resorted to taking a shot to land a shot.

 

Except both of them did eat flush leather in their primes, and neither were quite as aggressive as Frazier.

Tyson's defense gets hyped up far too much in my opinion. I have to wonder whether people just watch highlights of his greatest defensive feats.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFyQhKEWctM[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u97Q916ayh8[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEV1SMJvCFU[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UdFkaPi3LA[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unGOvFyaSy4[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SbHh9D9wKw[/ame]

I don't doubt that he had exceptional defense, especially for his style, but people make him out to be the equivalent of a heavyweight Pernell Whitaker at times.

 

Judging by Frazier face and head, Ali connected fairly frequently.

 

You can't compare a prime Duran with a prime Frazier. Duran's defense was on a whole other level. It was uncanny how he slipped punches. Even when nailed, he rarely absorbed the full force of the punch.

Frazier could be clocked and often was.

 

Well, I think it's pretty fair and obvious that Tyson's defense was superior to Frazier's. Not only his head-movement, but his foot-speed/footwork from the outside. I also think more importantly, Tyson's head-movement is much more balanced/versatile. And when I say this I mean it's less vulnerable to getting hit in general and through an assortment or specific punch.

 

I agree 100%, way to overrated.