If Tunney Never RETIRED

I think Tunney would drop a close decision to Schmeling in the early 30's.

 

I think sombody would have got to him before Louis came allong because he was not getting any younger.

A showdown with Jack Sharkey or Johny Risko would likley have been Tunneys next big bout. The possibility of Jack Sharkey beating him cannot be ruled out. Other likley challengers would include Young Stribling, Paulino Uzcdun, Primo Carnera, Tommy Loughran and even Mickey Walker.

I think that Schmelings title ambitions were moved forward by Tunneys retirment and he would likley have made his move a year or so later with Tunney in the picture. By this time Tunney would be past his sell by date and Schmeling would likley have the right style to take him.

I might be ridiculed by some for saying this but Primo Carnera would have been a bad stylistic matchup for Tunney especialy if he was declining. It is conceivable that Carnera might outpoint Tunney like he did to Tommy Loughran.

Tunney was astute in matching himself and would likley have avoided the most dangerous challengers unless they were forced upon him. You would not get him in the ring with Tommy Loughran unless Loughran became a mandatory.

Baer would on the face of it be an excelent stylistic matchup for Tunney but by the time Baer came allong Tunney would be getting on a bit if he were still champion and a young and focused Baer might prove too much.

 

The question though is when would those fights take place, and when would Tunney begin to show his age? If Tunney still had the same form a year or so after he retired, I'd take him over Sharkey and Schmeling; I think he'd be too fast and too well-rounded for either of them. But what people forget is that Tunney was almost the same age as Dempsey when they fought, and had been fighting for about as long. He was a veteran who had been through the mill.

 

With regard to the Schmeling issue I think that a lot would depend on what footage of Schmeling was a vailable.

If Tunney only had eyewitness acounts of Schmeling but Schmeling had film of the Dempsey and Heeney fights then Tunney would be in trouble.

Schmeling is a style of fighter where you are basicaly dead meat if you don't know what his style it and prepare acordingly. Could you imagine going up against him assuming that he was a textbook orthodox fighter?

 

Sharkey and Risko were the two standout contenders once Tunney beat Heeney (and Risko had in fact beaten Sharkey recently), but I believe Risko lost to someone not too long after Tunney retired and then fell from his top rated perch. Assuming Sharkey didn't blow any fights beforehand, he would've almost certainly been Tunney's next challenger either later that year or early next year.

 

At that time, Schmeling relied a lot more on his right hand and hadn't yet developed the jab and all-around skills that he would later use to good effect against Stribling and the Sharkey rematch. Look at his first fight with Sharkey, and how Sharkey basically shut him down simply by maneuvering away from his right hand and beating him to the punch. Tunney should be able to do the same, and probably better.

 

Here is what Tunney would be up against:



1928 Title Vacant

1. Young Stribling
2. George Godfrey
3. Paolino Uzcudun
4. Jack Sharkey
5. Knute Hansen
6. Jim Maloney
7. Johnny Risko
8. Phil Scott
9. Tom Heeney
10. Otto von Porat

1929 Title Vacant

1. Jack Sharkey
2. Max Schmeling
3. George Godfrey
4. Tuffy Griffith
5. Phil Scott
6. Otto von Porat
7. Young Stribling
8. Johnny Risko
9. Primo Carnera
10. Vittorio Campolo

1930 Max Schmeling, Champion

1. Jack Sharkey
2. Young Stribling
3. Tuffy Griffiths
4. Primo Carnera
5. George Godfrey
6. Johnny Risko
7. Ernie Schaaf
8. Tommy Loughran
9. Larry Johnson
10. Max Baer

1931 Max Schmeling, Champion

1. Jack Sharkey
2. Ernie Schaaf
3. Primo Carnera
4. King Levinsky
5. Mickey Walker
6. Tommy Loughran
7. Young Stribling
8. Stanley Poreda
9. Tuffy Griffiths
10. Max Baer

1932 Jack Sharkey, Champion

1. Max Schmeling
2. Max Baer
3. Stanley Poreda
4. Primo Carnera
5. Ernie Schaaf
6. Johnny Risko
7. King Levinsky
8. Walter Neusel
9. Larry Gains
10. Unknown Winston

1933 Primo Carnera, Champion

1. Max Baer
2. Tommy Loughran
3. King Levinsky
4. Max Schmeling
5. Don McCorkindale
6. Patsy Perroni
7. Walter Neusel
8. Charley Massare
9. Steve Hamas
10. Lee Ramage

1934 Max Baer, Champion

1. Steve Hamas
2. Primo Carnera
3. Art Lasky
4. Max Schmeling
5. King Levinsky
6. Patsy Perroni
7. Jack Petersen
8. Natie Brown
9. Joe Louis
10. Lee Ramage

1935 Jim Braddock, Champion

1. Joe Louis
2. Max Schmeling
3. Primo Carnera
4. Charley Retzlaff
5. Tommy Loughran
6. Eddie Mader
7. Hank Hankinson
8. Ray Impelletiere
9. Al Ettore
10. Ford Smith

 

I figured that in this alternate universe Schmeling would take a few more figfhts on American soil perhaps including one with Sharkey before he went after Tunney. I think Tunneys retirment brought his plans forward somewhat.

Also even if Tunney beat Schmeling he wouldn't go away.

 

Interesting thread. My picks:


Tunney UD Sharkey: i've never been that impressed by Sharkey and in fact, i think Tunney would win this won fairly easy on points.

Schmeling UD Tunney: My upset pick. Schmeling's timing is one of his best assets, and i think that would negate Tunney's better footwork/speed, which at this point would've deteriorated a bit due to his age anyway. I can see him [Max] land that overhand right on a consistent basis, but Tunney makes it to the end.


Tunney UD Baer: Like BD said, probably a replay of Baer vs Braddock. Tunney is too durable and skilled for Baer and while he may be stunned a few times, he makes Max look stupid most of the time.

I'd pick Louis to knock Tunney out because at that point, Tunney would be 37 or something. A prime Tunney might last the distance and has a tough style for the Bomber, but Louis presents punching power and combination delivery that Tunney has never seen, including an old Dempsey.

 

I think that in adition to fights with Sharkey, Schmeling and Baer we might want to consider Stribling, Uzcdun, Carnera and Loughran as likley challengers.

The issue of these fights would have come up even if they did not take place.

 

Emphasis mine...

Brave, and accurate, assessment...in my opinion. I think Primo is one of the most underrated boxers in the history of this sport! :good

 

In a similar thread some months ago I posted a scenario of Tunney's career if he hadn't retired that matches yours pretty much to the letter. I believe that Tunney would have soundly defeated every single champion from Schmeling to Braddock, and rather decisively, as well, but would have overstayed his welcome by the time of Louis, and would have lost a decision...only I don't think he'd have been decked...but he would have lost on his own terms, on a decision. He was too smart to get ko'd or decked after the experience of the Long Count, even by Joe Louis. He would have been punished, and hurt, but would have survived to the last bell IMO, and would have lost a wide decision. Tunney would have covered himself with glory even with the skeptical public which derided him for his bookish, high society pursuits and "colorless" (the age old classic adjective applied to Tunney) intellectual demeanor. He would have soundly beaten the guys between his reign and Louis's, with a possible stiff challenge from the emotional, erratic and tempermental Sharkey..another word for The Boston Gob would have been "mercurical"..and who knows, that attribute may have allowed him to push Tunney...and Schmeling was a bit too methodical and slow to get to Gene, but Baer, Carnera, and Braddock he would have boxed the ears off of...I think he would have exceeded the great Tommy Loughran's performances against these very men.

 

Prime for Prime, I think Tunney may beat Louis, just my thought.

Of couse pushing 37, I dont see Tunney doing it in this time line. But Tunney does have the right style to trouble Louis.

 

Exactly, Dempsey1238 is right..Tunney's age would have been against him vs Louis. Back in his prime, I trhink he would have had a shot at Joe. I admit I rate Tunney much higher than most classic fans.