Top 3 fighters since Ray Robinson`s prime ????

Agreed. Good thread anyway.

 

Looks like you're wrong again

 

Cant say Hearns was nearly as proven as a three time champion. Not many knew anything about Hearns while everyone knew what Arguello was about.

Not only that but odds for Arguello 2-1 over Pryor while Leonard Hearns 6-5 for Leonard. If Arguello was past his prime, no one was talking about it.

Next sentence. I havent forgotten Tommy's lone accomplishment but pipino's time was up and couldnt handle Tommy's reach. Like they say, styles. Pipino was still the better welterweight and the better champion.

As for Tommy, once he gained some experience and some pounds, it automatically made him a better fighter but that was at higher weights. Facing off with the likes of Shields, Baez, Primera, does nothing for a fighter.

 

Ray leonard turned down a fight with Pryor. It's a fact.

Too much ducking, too little fighting

 

Ray also ducked Hagler and Nunn. This drops him way down on my list

 

Hagler often did little dances at the end, high-fiving Robbie, etc. You have to know Hagler's personality. He didn't look embarrassed at all. He looked like a winner. Very relaxed. But he knew what might happen. It happened to him against Antuofermo. It almost happened to him against Duran. The scores in the Duran fight were ridiculously close. I'm sure he started worrying then. The scores in the Leoanrd fight were ridiculous. In fact, the Antuofermo fight was much closer, and it is widely regarded as a bad decision. If you believe Leonard beat Hagler in a close fight, then Antuofermo beat Hagler by several points.

You see in Hagler embarrassment for the same reason you see in the fight a victory for Leonard. These fantasies stem from the same delusion: that Leonard was the better boxer. He wasn't. Hagler was the greater fighter by far. Hagler was a dominant middleweight. He is arguably the most dominant middleweight in the history of the division. Leonard never dominated a division in boxing. You have to change the meaning of "domination" to claim he did. Let's not change the meanings of words to sustain our fantasies, okay?

 

My top 4.
1. Prenell Whitaker
2. Ray Leonard
3. Roy Jones Jr.
4. Floyd Mayweather Jr.

 

Hagler is among the three best fighters since Sugar Ray Robinson (the others are Ali and Duran).

Hagler retired having fought 67 times. He was never stopped or knocked out. He never retired in his corner. He was never even knocked off his feet. A referee mistakenly counted after Juan Roldan pulled Hagler off his feet with a punch that went around the back of Hagler’s head, but everybody knows it wasn’t a knockdown. Sixty-seven fights against some of the toughest middleweights in history, and the man was never knocked off his feet. He was talented, brutal, and tough.

Hagler has two draws on his record. It is widely recognized that these draws are the result of bad decisions. The first, to Sugar Ray Seals, was a hometown affair after he had already outpointed Seals over 10 rounds. He stopped Seals in the rubbermatch. The second was to Vito Antuofermo. Nearly everybody at ringside had Hagler ahead, most of them had him way ahead. Despite their patriotism, every Italian journalist in attendance had to admit that Hagler won. So the two draws out of those 67 fights are judged by most to have been victories.

Hagler has three losses on his record, two close decisions losses and one unanimous decision loss. The first was a majority decision loss to Bobby Watts. It is acknowledged by observers that this was a hometown decision. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that one of the judges was suspended over this fight. He also lost a unanimous decision to Willie Monroe, also regarded as a hometown decision. Hagler avenged both of these losses by knockout. The other loss was in Hagler’s last fight, capping years of wars against rugged middleweights, a fight which a very large number of observers believe he won. When you have so many people questioning the official verdict, and when you have a clearly bought card, you know the question is at least unsettled. The reality was that Hagler was robbed.

So arguably, we have in Marvin Hagler a middleweight who never actually lost or drew in a fight in 67 fights, including 15 title fights. That is astonishing. He was never dominated. Ever.
Hagler was truly a dominant champion. But, and this is the piece people overlook, Hagler was the dominant middleweight years before he was champion. By 1979, before the Antuofermo draw, Hagler had defeated more number one contenders than any other fighter of his day. For years the champions ducked him. They were terrified of the baldheaded man with the Fu Manchu mustache. It’s almost as if those old enough to remember don’t want to remember that every boxing expert was scratching their head over why Hagler was not being given a shot.

This was the first great injustice done to Hagler: had he been given a shot earlier, he would have easily eclipsed Monzon’s record. Hagler was the epitome of the uncrowned champion. Then the injustice of Antuofermo – avenged in devastating fashion. But still uncrowned. Then the near injustice against Duran, a fight he won going away. And then, to the final insult, the injustice of the Leonard decision.

It’s unfair, really, that the most marvelous fighter since Robinson – with the exceptions of Ali and Duran – was treated so shabbily by judges during his career. But because official decisions aren’t the truth, because the truth is clear to those who bury their bias and watch the action, we can recognize Hagler was for what he was: a very special athlete in our sport.

 

:good:good:good

When should of Marvin been given a shot at the title?

 

Roy Jones
Muhammed Ali
Julio Cesar Chavez



Keith

 

That was his victory dance

 

I'll clear this up once and for all using hearns as a baromter to measure the quality of each fighter

1981 SRL -way behind, cant hit a moving target, felling weak undernourished Hearns in 14

a 30 year old Hagler felling a much improved and peak Hearns in 3. therefore Hagler has always been superior to Ray in a p4p sense

 

Ali
Duran
Whitaker

 

thats another good choice

Roy Jones is another I had in mind. Also Monzon, Hagler, Duran, Ali, Arguello

 

Muhammad Ali
Roberto Duran
Eder Jofre (Or Carlos Monzon)