Who had greater ability: TONEY (circa Barkley fight) or CHAVEZ (circa Rosario fight)?

I think Toney would beat a 168lb Chavez

 

Suspect this depends on what people like because these are very different boxers. Toney is cagey and if you like that then you will likely think he is better. I go with Chavez.

 

exactly

 

toney wasn't stopped even when he was not in his prime weight and neither at his prime years these two at the same time.

 

nononono No way Toney wouldnt be able to handle the heat, He would not keep up with chavezs pace. Even at Toneys best he could get Lackadasical. Hed win rounds with his superior hand speed,But chavez would never let up and Toney would be glad when this was Over, chavez by decision116-112 116-113 and 115-113

 

Totally agree anarci. Even in his best performances Toney could get a little lazy, and you can't afford any slip ups or lapses against machine-like consistent fighters like Chavez.

 

Toney had better ability.

 

toney was about as effective really.
a prime hatton at 140 also about the same.
ray leonard at 147 and maybe also at 154 , mccallum at 154 , jackson at 154 , and there are many more.
why ? leonard's only loss at 147 was a close points loss which was later well avenged.
he was the first to stop hearns , duran , kalule ,benitez , kevin howard.
hearns , kalule and benitez were even undefeated at the time.
he was a terrific amateur who stopped the man who stopped mccallum at the amateurs , and stoppages

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count at the amateurs.
that was just one long example.
all-time p4p considerations are long like this one i'm not sure you want me to explain every example and i even have more examples and i believe others here have as well.
JCC was ouutpointed at his peak , was stopped at his best weight , though not at his peak anymore , deserved a points-loss at the beginning of his career , just one of the type that the participants here love to hold against reggie johnson and gerald mcclellan , but forget when discussing hagler , and ignore truth when discussing JCC.
JCC was the best 140 of his time , but even at HIS weight there were :
hatton , dlh , fmj , vince phillips , whitaker , duran could have been there a long time had he wanted but i don't say that he was better than JCC at 140 , though i saw some of the posters here do think so , so for them and maybe you it is an example.
many old timers as well could have made this weight for a long time :
armstrong , barbados joe walcott , young peter jackson and i am sure posters here can give more examples to at least as great LWWs as JCC.
JCC was a protected fighter for a large part of his record.
when he stopped becoming protected , he was exposed.
i won't take out of consideration the plaster option especially in cases like his self.

 

It's an interesting question as Toney looked so good at times but I favor Chavez based on superior opposition and far better determination. Up to 135 he was exceptional. He was still terrific at 140 but not the same. I did not like him at welter at all ... No one dominated Julio in his prime the way Jones diced up Toney. Toney can cry weight all he weants but his weight issues did not hinder him prior to Roy.

 

Toney for sure. When did you ever see Chavez display defensive mastery? Toney was far more the complete fighter than Chavez. What were Toney's shortcomings other than laziness and maybe punching power at the higher weights? Chavez was a hell of a fighter but his style was based soley on a massive offense, and he almost always had a nice strength advantage over his opponents at the lightweight. A complete fighter like Toney can have a lot more success at higher weights mainly because of their defensive expertise. A fighter like Chavez or Trinidad cannot.