Ali is not overated. The ATG fighters he beat - Liston, Frazier, Foreman. Borderline greats - Patterson, Norton. Top contenders - Jones, Williams, Terrell, Chuvalo, Folley, Quarry, Bonavena, Spinks, Shavers. Find me another HW with that type of pedigree and we'll talk.
I knew you would comment if you saw that, just didnt think it would be so quick hell.... same minute too
you're gonna get slammed but i agree his resume is good but not great. yes, he fought and beat some great fighters. the fights he had with other black fighters who couldn't get a title shot were impressive and from what i've read, his skills were undeniable but once he became successful and especially won the title he avoided any legit black fighters same as those that came before him. he was no different than others, but his reign was relatively uneventful and almost disgraceful considering he had the opportunity to give others the chance he worked so hard at i think he belongs at the bottom of the top 10 heavies but honestly no higher; his resume just doesn't warrant it and it was partly his own design
Mickey Rourke I'd say was way more overrated than Ali. People make too much of his unbeaten record. They say he's better than Foster, Moore, Moorer, etc. But I don't rate him that highly as a light heavyweight or p4p. His win over Jesmer was pretty good though. He was tough and all. This content is protected
Edit: originally posted a slam on the bozo thread starter, but you gents have salvaged this thread into a usefulness this nimrod doesn't deserve. My faith in humanity is restored. Balboa = most overrated.
He gave Jim Johnson a shot at the title. What you're basically saying is that inspite of Johnson's having cleaned out the division of it's top black contenders when challanger, he should have rematched them all again as champion, for peanuts, even though white fighters wouldn't do that? As an aside, the only fighter who was black and was flat out ducked during his reign was Langford, whom Jack had already beaten. Jack Dempsey had a far less impressive run as challanger to go with his comparable run as champion. Higher can definitely be justified based upon criteria. I have him at 6-7 and am happy with that. He certainy defeated better fighters than Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson, who I suspect you rank above him.
His record still consists of wins over George Gardner, Sam Langford, Sam McVea, Joe Jeannette, Bob Fitzsimmons, Tommy Burns, Stanley Ketchel, Jim Jeffries, Al Kauffman and Fireman Jim Flynn. While wins over McVea were early on in his career, Ketchel was admittedly a MW, and Jeffries was out of retirement, that's still a damn fine resumé. McGrain is right to the extent that he already beat the best black fighters around before he was champion, he just never did it during his actual title reign.
i agree completely with dempsey being less impressive but that's a beef for another day. johnson's resume i've been able to wrap my head around. you know FAR more about that era than i do mcgrain but i've always felt that jeanette and langford were the best names of his resume langford is certainly ranked higher p4p but he was too small for a heavy of johnson's calibre. Any win over jeanette is impressive, never mind the multiple wins (at least be newspaper) he posted. other than that though, fighters like a far past it fitzsimmons and smaller fighters like ketchel and o'brien keep holding me back