yes he lost to reid! other that that! I think he won! Larsen lost 5 rounds to 7 if i remember correctly! saw that fight on Eurosport couple of years ago!
Just to clarrify I'm neither black nor a racist and at no point in this thread did I call him a fraud. I simply said he was not undefeated and undeserving of his undefeated record. The most bias of viewers still have to score it more than 1 point to read (you have to take into account the knockdowns that were and the point deductions that weren't). I try very hard not to lead with or respond to personal insults on this page as I prefer a proper debate about the chosen subject. Your comments ran me pretty close however.
facts are facts ottke will go down in history as being an undefeated WORLD CHAMPION...:yep same as joe calzaghe....:good also the records show froch w12 v dirrell.... 3 great world champions from europe....:hey
The whole Ottke situation is exaggerated. No doubt he lost the Reid fight which was a shambles, and he could have one or two extra losses on his record, but people just look at his record on Boxrec, see about 6 decisions that are either split, majority or very close UD and claim they were robberies without even watching the fights. And then say Ottke was a bum. Far from it. He wasn't an elite fighter, but he was very good defensively, disciplined and had solid skills.
Totally agree. I'm not claiming he should have ten losses on his record, just simply that there shouldn't be an O there. No doubt the guy had some slick skills. But he certainly in my opinion wasn't a great and certainly lost more than his record shows.
People spout a load of shite on this subject. I swear people havn't seen any of the fights and just hop on board the bandwagon of perceived wisdom that says Ottke lost numerous fights. The only fight he CLEARLY lost was against Robin Reid. Some others are arguable either way due to Ottke's style, he tended to do just enough. He also made Glen Johnson look like an amateur for long periods, so Ottke was a good fighter.
Roger Tillerman was the name of the Ref. I don't know what members of his family they were holding hostage but shocking.
Very valid point. I didn't say he wasn't a good fighter, just not great. Arguements could be made for a lot of the other fights but I scored mitchell and larsen against him even giving the 'champion' the benefit in some rounds.
I love Larsen but he didn't convince me he did enough to win. Could have been a draw or a point either way really, much like a few other Ottke fights. Particularly the one with Brewer was the other really debateable one. On neutral ground a decision or two could have conceivably gone the other way on the law of averages, he might have a few losses. I don't think anybody thinks he's a great fighter, and I don't know anybody that admits to enjoying his style but he was a decent fighter, not a bum as a few people say. If he's a bum I don't know what Glen Johnson is because Glen got outboxed more convincingly than against Chad Dawson.
Ottke had good skills. A B-plus fighter, IMO. But I lost respect for him after the Reid fight. It's one thing for a promoter to work a deal with referee, but Ottke was in on the scam. He kept looking at the ref begging for help -- the "competition" itself was a joke. But yeah, he had some talent.
You dont achieve what Ottke did without being a good boxer. His style stunk out the joints he was fighting in, but at the end of the day, he hit the opponent more than the opponent hit him. And thats whats counts in boxing... However he had some close calls, and was very genorously treated by the judges due to his home advantage... The reid fight is the only one I have seen where he loses clean. That fight was a disgrace, with even german fight fans being disgusted by the way things unfolded. Mads Larsen, a fellow dane I might add, well he just didnt do enough to win on german soil. That was my opinion when I saw the fight, and thats my opinion now.
I think that sums up how most people feel. I think there is only the real anger towards ottke for that one fight (though I have already mentioned the others where I felt he lost). People do tend to be angry and look past his skills, however I do not feel ottke beats any great super mw's. Unless of course it's held in germany with a certain Mr Tillerman as REF!