Pavlik MUST leave Youngstown for his own good, Ulli Wegner & Germany would be nice!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BigBone, Oct 29, 2009.


  1. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm very frustrated how things going around Kelly Pavlik, and you can check back my personal criticism at Team Pavlik how they handle it's fighter's career (I almost never criticize Kelly himself, he's a cool kid and I have respect for all fighters). He's still relatively young with a lot of goods, some unused potential and a fan-friendly, exciting style putting thousands of asses in the seats - very rare nowadays in the US - but his life outside of the ring makes a potentially great career going down the toilet. Either because the people around him are sharks after his money or they are simply so stupid that they can't look after a fighter who... well, needs to be looked after. Lesser things have ended professional careers and Kelly had some serious issues. But on the other hand, and a change of training (or living) location often made wonders for troubled athletes. Kelly will be always Youngtown's own hero no matter where he trains, but training where you're the biggest hero usually leads to distractions. Time to leave.

    My concerns about him started back in 2007 when he needed "100 stitches" (a lot less actually than reported) when he heavily cut his hands back home. You see boxers use their hands to box, it's the equipment for their job, the pen for their poetry, the instrument for their music, and it should be protected more than anything.

    The Hopkins fight is what it is, a miscalculated risk turning into a nightmare, but it exposed a lot of issues around team Pavlik. Jack Loew's incapability to change tactics for one, the whole bunch of holes in Kelly's game and letting Pavlik fight despite an illness is all but professional work. They can thank the Lord the MW championship wasn't on the line on that night.

    But this year's rumors were even more disturbing. I don't know how many % is true, but even 30% would be too much: contractual dispute during the summer and miscommunication between management and promoter, rumors of problems with the bottle and professional help, a bar fight reported, and the worst, the staph infection, something that could've been avoided if Kelly himself and people around him had cared about hygiene and health.

    But the worst and most disturbing thing I had to read (other than Kelly missing doctor appointments) was that Pavlik almost lived up to his nickname due to an serious allergic reaction to a medication. How can people be so ****ing dumb not to read the instructions on side-effects or asking the doctor (or the doctor asking them and actually giving a proper answer) about possible side-effects and allergic reactions? Even before the Williams negotiations and miscommunicated postponements, it was a whole mess. This has to end right now.


    Kelly Pavlik's personal life is his own business, but with so many negative reports, articles and rumors coming from Youngstown, I think I might have a point suggesting that Kelly & team should sit down and decide to put YT behind (at least for his career years), fire Jack Loew's ass and hire a professional trainer with a professional assistant looking after the Ghost.

    It's really a matter of smart selecting to find the right coach and camp location, feel free to suggest one, here's my tip:

    Ulli Wegner is not only a respected, very skilled and highly experienced German trainer, he's also very professional, strict and looks after his fighters very well. Abraham is not the smartest mind on the planet, and Wegner strictly telling him what to do, where and when makes them a great and successful pair with minimal distractions. Ulli is not your Buddy McGirt, you train your ass off, learn until your mind explodes and make fights look like walk-in-the-park compared to the camp, but that's all for your benefit. And Wegner is there in the fight with you mentally and with all the smarts, telling you what to do when things don't look so good.

    Wegner's traits are teaching excellent defense, good counterpunching, smart adaptation and varied gameplans, everything Pavlik needs to put his game on another level, and I think there's still one. Wegner = professionalism, imagine the benefit Kelly would get working with him and sparring with his talented fighters. I don't think Hopkins 'you gotta learn the black stuff' would do any good, but the European style would fit Pavlik perfectly, who could be the same jab-based, aggressive fighter but with much improved defense, tactical fighting and varied punch selection. Why not give Ulli a try? No distraction in his camp, it's too damn tough to deal with anything else.
     
  2. booradley

    booradley Mean People Kick Ass! Full Member

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    this is a completely ridiculous post from a normally very good poster. BigBone, I am astonished that it took you so many words to say nothing.
     
  3. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    ^^ LMFFAAOO

    thats ****ING RUDE YET HILARIOUS!
     
  4. The Joker

    The Joker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He should leave Younstown and leave his trainer there as well. He needs some fresh people in his corner.
     
  5. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, I tried to point out some things. Every fighter deserves to live up to his potential, and IMO under the current circumstances, Kelly just can't. It's not one distraction, it's a whole line of distractions cutting Pavlik's career short. Sorry if I sounded rude or hilarious, I wasn't meant to be either.
     
  6. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    i was talking about boo radleys post
     
  7. K-Man

    K-Man Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Good idea. Question is if Pavlik could imagine himself living in Germany. Perhaps he could relocate in the US to some place he likes, train by a personal daily plan made by competent professional coaches, and have only his camp in Germany before fights. But I have no idea if the language barrier would be too high between the two, as much of Wegeners "magic" comes from his down-to-earth german slang style that gets into the ears of fighters.

    But I think Wegener won't do it unless it's guaranteed his two "sons" don't fight each other then.
     
  8. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    There are some things that Team Pavlik have mishandled. The Hopkins fight was one. It was obviously a massive risk that they only took because they were looking for a payday as well as to hype a fight with Calzaghe. Understandable, but stupid. Obviously, camp went like a train wreck and Jack Loew massively underestimated Hopkins, clearly didn't do his homework, and expected KP to just walk him down like any other opponent. Not smart.

    I think Pavlik's latest injury was probably blunder number 2. How KP contracted the bug in the first place is anybody's guess, and is unlikely down to mismanagement. What I do agree with is that they handled the Williams affair like a juggler on smack, and certainly shouldn't have arranged to fight when they couldn't be even reasonably sure that Pavlik was ready.

    Those problems wouldn't have occurred were Pavlik handled by a more professional, experienced team; it's true. But there is a price to pay. Pavlik simply doesn't want to train anywhere else. The guy has lived in Youngstown all his life, has two kids and a wife there, spends half his time at his parents' house up the road and has most of his free time occupied by charity and visits in and around the city. Some people just can't bear to be away from home: they lose motivation and focus. I may be wrong, and Pavlik may adjust handily to a new life, but I doubt it very much, especially considering his current habits.

    From a boxing perspective, I'm not sure that there's that much to be gained by going to a different trainer. A HoFer may be more strategically aware than Jack Loew, but they certainly wouldn't get on as well as Loew does with Pavlik. The other thing to consider is that Pavlik isn't a puristic wizard. He does the basics well, comes in behind a strong jab and applies a lot of pressure. That's not something you can teach, particularly, and it's not something that would be that receptive to the kind of complex tactics that some more famous trainers try and impose. Someone who understands a fighter's strengths and weaknesses and can improve them from there rather than trying to change their style, like Freddie Roach, would definitely be good. But most other "great" trainers (like Manny Steward) often try and get their fighters to acquire habits that just don't suit them, without success - JT is a good example, and he's now gone "back to basics" with his training. In summary, there would be very few trainers that would understand Pavlik's style well enough to roll with him rather than trying things that are inappropriate, and the loss in familiarity and comfort caused by Jack Loew would be pretty damaging.

    On a side note, the suggestion that he should move to Germany is totally pie-in-the-sky. There are plenty of trainers closer-to-home if he wanted to move. Why he should throw his family life and comfort off a cliff to train half-way across the world in a pretty average gym is utterly beyond me. Suggesting Roach or Brother Nazim I could have understood, but this?
     
  9. warrior85

    warrior85 R.I.P THUNDER Full Member

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    i agree,i cant recently remember when a potential superstar career has stagnated so quickly & severely.
     
  10. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    To sum that up, this would work if and only if Pavlik would be comfortable training somewhere else. I don't think he would be. It's certainly worth thinking about, though.
     
  11. warrior85

    warrior85 R.I.P THUNDER Full Member

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    well something needs to change drastically in his career at the minute,maybe this would give him the shot in the arm he needs so to speak
     
  12. Hermit

    Hermit Loyal Member banned

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    And you said MY jokes were lame? BB certainly has to have his blinders on for this post. :yep
     
  13. H .

    H . Boxing Junkie banned

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    :good
     
  14. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    I don't think Pavlik needs a shot-in-the-arm (was that supposed to be a pun?). I think he's had a massive run of bad luck, and his team have made things worse than they needed to be. Things should pick up once his injury is gone. Whether he needs a change is to a large extent separate from what's going on now.
     
  15. The Joker

    The Joker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Emanuel Steward works great with tall offensive fighters. Pavlik should definitely look him up. His current trainer is doing nothing for him. All I ever hear him say is "1-2 down the middle Kelly" No other game plan, just the same basic 1-2 in all of his fights.