I just read that Bert Sugar has Roy Jones 88th on his greatest fighters list

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Danny_Rand, Oct 29, 2009.


  1. Danny_Rand

    Danny_Rand Slick N Quick Full Member

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    As someone said, who is 87. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well, it's "Greatest". So it's possibly justifiable. Myself, i have him 24, I think.
     
  3. preciseI247

    preciseI247 Member Full Member

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    He probablly thinks Rocky Marciano would be hw champ today too.

    Deluded old timer.


    **** him and his schtick , I hope he swallows his ****in cigar.
     
  4. Danny_Rand

    Danny_Rand Slick N Quick Full Member

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    He should be ranked in the top 50 on H2H ability alone. How many fighters from middleweight to light heavyweight could beat him? I think I could count them all on one hand. A crabs hand. First middleweight to win a heavyweight title in what 100 years? Come on man.

    I enjoy Berts stories, he keeps alot of the boxing folklore alive, but Roy Jones 88? Arguably the best fighter of the last 20 years. Come on.
     
  5. cubex

    cubex Boxing Addict banned

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    Well I've read different opinions and it seems many people agree wit him.
     
  6. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

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    Bert Sugar's lists usually reek of senility.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What if you don't rate fighters based on speculative opinion? What if you rate fighters upon what they achieved?
     
  8. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

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    Bert is full of sentimental ****.
     
  9. Danny_Rand

    Danny_Rand Slick N Quick Full Member

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  10. Shane_Erich

    Shane_Erich Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I like Bert's knowledge of history, but IMO he WAYYYY overates alot of the older fighters.
     
  11. Danny_Rand

    Danny_Rand Slick N Quick Full Member

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    Here's the list


    1) Ray Robinson
    2) Hank Armstrong
    3) Willie Pep
    4) Joe Louis
    5) Harry Greb
    6) Benny Leonard
    7) Muhammad Ali
    8) Roberto Duran
    9) Jack Dempsey
    10) Jack Johnson
    11) Mickey Walker
    12) Tony Canzoneri
    13) Gene Tunney
    14) Rocky Marciano
    15) Joe Gans
    16) Sam Langford
    17) Julio Cesar Chavez
    18) Jimmy Wilde
    19) Stanley Ketchel
    20) Barney Ross
    21) Jimmy McClarnin
    22) Archie Moore
    23) Marcel Cerdan
    24) Ezzard Charles
    25) Ray Leonard
    26) The Original Joe Walcott
    27) Jake Lamotta
    28) Eder Jofre
    29) Emile Griffith
    30) Terry McGivern
    31) George Foreman
    32) Johnny Dundee
    33) Jose Napoles
    34) Pascual Perez
    35) Billy Conn
    36) Ruben Olivares
    37) Joe Frazier
    38) Tommy Loughran
    39) Sandy Saddler
    40) Kid Chocolate
    41) Abe Attell
    42) Evander Holyfield
    43) George Dixon
    44) Maxie Rosenbloom
    45) Larry Holmes
    46) Ted 'Kid' Lewis
    47) Marvin Hagler
    48) Pernell Whitaker
    49) Carlos Zarate
    50) Thomas Hearns
    51) Battling Nelson
    52) Beau Jack
    53) Ricardo Lopez
    54) John L Sullivan
    55) Carlos Monzon
    56) Alexis Arguello
    57) Carmen Basilio
    58) Pete Herman
    59) Charley Burley
    60) Ike Williams
    61) Kid Gavilan
    62) Jack Britton
    63) Dick Tiger
    64) Pancho Villa
    65) Panama Al Brown
    66) Bob Fitzsimmons
    67) Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
    68) Tiger Flowers
    69) James J Corbett
    70) Tony Zale
    71) Tommy Ryan
    72) Georges Carpentier
    73) Sonny Liston
    74) Kid McCoy
    75) Bob Foster
    76) Freddie Welsh
    77) Joe Jeanette
    78) Jim Driscoll
    79) Jersey Joe Walcott
    80) Peter Jackson
    81) Ad Wolgast
    82) Jack Dempsey nonpareil
    83) Manuel Ortiz
    84) Jim Jeffries
    85) Salvador Sanchez
    86) Jimmy Barry
    87) Carlos Ortiz
    88) Roy Jones jr.
    89) Wilfredo Gomez
    90) Aaron Pryor
    91) Bernard Hopkins
    92) Mike Gibbons
    93) Jack Delaney
    94) Johnny Kilbane
    95) Willie Ritchie
    96) Wilfred Benitez
    97) Packy MacFarland
    98) Rocky Graziano
    99) Lew Jenkins
    100) Mike Tyson



    Apparently Carlos Ortiz is number 87. :lol:
     
  12. EpsilonAxis

    EpsilonAxis HNIC Full Member

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    His top 8 are fine.

    However, any list without Jones in AT LEAST the top 20 is crazy.
     
  13. JMP

    JMP Champion Full Member

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    Bert Sugar can tell stories like no other...when it comes to discussing actual boxing with sound reasoning and litte bias, on the other hand, he's ****ing terrible.
     
  14. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

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    ^ That would be most lists I reckon Epislon..Roy could be top 30, easily top 40...but I can think of 20 guys Id put over him.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well it's not penalising a guy when you discuss who he beat. Juding a man on what he actually achieved rather than what you think he would have achieved is perfectly reasonable. We rate Montgomary and Hannibal above peace-time generals. Fair? No. Reasonable? Of course. The bottom line.


    And you can see the problem here. You've started of talking about pure ability and immediatly fallen back upon who he beat to support your point.