I just read that Bert Sugar has Roy Jones 88th on his greatest fighters list

Where is Pernell Whitaker and Sugar Ray Leonard on your list?

 

His fight vs Mercer is one of my favorite HW fights...amazing.

 

so you tryin to say this is Bowe's fault?

i could hear it now

"ahh who cares, he beat him before anyways"

:yep

 

Yup, good competitive fight. Any questions about Lewis' chin were answered in that showing, as well as the Tua and Vitali showdowns. Lewis could take a good shot. Mercer could bang.

 

Not at all, I'm not pointing the blame at anyone. Rather than say, "Lewis beat everyone he ever faced", I'd prefer to just look at the talent pool of the division he operated in. He has good solid wins, but is lacking the signature win of a '94 Holyfield, '93 Bowe, or an earlier Mike Tyson. For whatever reason, the fights didn't come off. I'd pick Lewis to beat all of them, by the way.

 

Overall i like Bert Sugar he has a ton of knowledge and he is full of great stories. Hes one of the few guys who i actually learn knew things about boxing from,but i hate when this guy is always interrupting other knowledgable guys that i like to hear from on ESPN classsic.Lots of times they just shut up and let him go on and i never get to hear what they had to say.

 

i liked his fight with Mavrovic and Briggs the best.

classic Lennox

 

Point taken, I just feel Jones resume, tho not as top heavy as Spinks' was, was deeper in my opinion. And I agree that alphbet titles are a laughingstock of the sport at times, its of equal importance of who he beat to get or keep those titles.

His MW title - Bernard Hopkins
His SMW title - James Toney
His LHW title - Mccallum and Griffin
His HW title - Ruiz

The fact that they people he beat were either ATGs (Hopkins and arguably Toney), 3 division champions (Mccallum) or 2 time HW champions (Ruiz...which should be three time, seeing as how I felt he beat Valuev both times, but thats another arguement for another post I guess) adds credibility to those ABC belts...as does the people he defended them against. And lets not forget, not only did he beat these good to great names, he DOMINATED them. Noone came close to beating him in his prime...that goes a long way (so long in fact that if domination did not count, I dont think Tyson would be as fondly remembered).

:good

 

Yeah, never understood where the chin questions came from. Those shots he got stopped on were ****ing bombs from big punchers...how many people would have gotten up from that shot Rahman laid on him?

Lennox's chin was just fine.

 

Although Jones might win in a head to head matchup, i rate those guys a little higher based on the quality of their opposition. Id put Leonard around #6 and Pernell around 10,11,12. They were never knocked cold like Jones. I know he was past it but i still hold it against him,as the guys that knocked him out are not great fighters or even Big time punchers. I change my mind i might pick the 147lb version of Leonard in a fantasy pfp matchup.

 

It looks impressive on paper, but you don't really put much stock in the victory over Mike McCullum do you? Likewise, if we're comparing, the Ruiz victory is canceled out by the much greater Holmes victory, both of them, and what's your stance on the James Toney supposedly drained theory? I ignore it personally, seems like another way to discredit the man, but all in all, you talk about Jones Jr reign being deeper, but often times he fought no hopers and saw the distance with them.

 

Leonard has zero chance of beating a Light Heavyweight of Jones Jr quality, Anaraci - but your placements of Leonard and Whitaker are fine by me.

 

James Toney was drained because he was lazy and had no dedication...that is not the fault of Jones. And that fight, much like the Mccallum (who I feel may be the most underrated fighter of the past generation) fight is impressive on the sheer impressiveness of the performance. Mccallum may have been towards the end, but he was still a very good and very intelligent fighter...and as overrated I feel Toney is (tho he is a borderline ATG), the sheer fact that Jones pretty much shut him out tells you of how great a peak Jones was.

Spinks was a great, GREAT fighter. Im not attempting to take a thing away from him in this debate. I just think that Jones deeper resume, his titles in so many classes/his defenses and his overall ability at his peak just set him above. Just my opinion.

(now I really have to go to bed...got work at 7am and its almost 3am here now...:scaredas

 

Im not saying Ray would have beat him at light heavy im saying that the 147lb version beats roy in a pfp matchup, Ray was also an underrated puncher at welter and his speed was on par with roy he would be quick enough to force roy into a fight and when it comes to facing adversity Ray has got the nod big time. Hed probably stop him late. Roys power was not as good at light heavy compared to Middleweight, I think jones best wt was Middle and Super middle.

 

Any list that has Chavez over Leonard should be put in file 13.