When has a good prime little man beat a good prime bigger man?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by horst, Oct 31, 2009.


  1. horst

    horst Guest

    I'm thinking about if there is a strong historical precedence in trying to work out what Pacquiao's chances are of beating Cotto.

    Before you guys respond, please note that I don't mean one-division jumps like Leonard-Hagler (where Leonard was taller) or jumps where one guy was clearly past-prime (like Mayweather-De La Hoya and Pacquiao-De La Hoya) or jumps where one guy was great and one was mediocre (like Jones-Ruiz or Mayweather-Baldomir) or jumps where although there is a jump, the size difference is not very big (like Hopkins-Tarver).

    Bear in mind that Pacquiao is prime, Cotto is prime, Pacquiao is likely to weigh around 148-150lbs on fightnight and Cotto could weigh as much as 160lbs (he weighed 159lbs on fightnight vs Urkal), and that Pacquiao used to be a flyweight and a superbantamweight, whereas Cotto started at light-welter and has now been a big, strong welter for a number of years.

    Can anyone think of good examples of a good prime little man beating a good prime big man?

    (the more recent the better, I know guys like Greb and Armstrong often fought far bigger guys, but it was a different world back then)

    :bbb
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You're gonna get a lot of "Duran-Leonard" in this thread, but given your limiting criteria and the time-span you're interested in, it's the best answer.
     
  3. horst

    horst Guest

    It is the best answer, but do you have any alternatives? With or without the criteria?
     
  4. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    Pac vs Barrera
     
  5. horst

    horst Guest

    As highly as I value that win, I don't view it as a good answer to this question. I have the fight on dvd, and I'm pretty sure Pac outweighed MAB on the night, and had height and reach advantages. Also, that was only a single division jump.

    If that is a valid answer, then so is a million single division jumps, like Mosley-De La Hoya for example, where size clearly wasn't an issue.

    Pac will give away 8-10lbs on the night against Cotto, and it's a natural featherweight against a natural welterweight. That's a big difference.
     
  6. anarci

    anarci Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bowe vs Holyfield II
     
  7. GDG

    GDG Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not sure why Hopkins Vs Tarver should be ruled out, Hops jumed 15lbs.

    - Pac Vs MAB
    - Mosley Vs DLH
    - Duran Vs SRL
    - Spinks Vs Holmes (though unbeaten, Holmes had seen his best days though).
    - Toney Vs Jirov

    Those spring to mind right away.
     
  8. horst

    horst Guest

    Hopkins-Tarver probably is a good shout to be honest, but I just felt that Hopkins was a good size lhw and always would have been, and I doubt there was a great disparity in weight on the night like there will be for Pac-Cotto.

    Mosley-DLH?? Come on mate. There was almost no size difference at all there. In fact, I bet Shane was heavier at fight-time. I have it on dvd, I'll check.
     
  9. Hatesrats

    Hatesrats "I'm NOT Suprised..." Full Member

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    Simon Brown Vs. Terry Norris I
    (Both were basically at the same stage as Pac & Cotto)

    Brown being the former WW moving up to 154lbs & Knocking out the RED HOT! Terry Norris.
    (Who had big plans lined up after this fight)
     
  10. horst

    horst Guest

    Yes, that is a very good one I didn't think of :good
     
  11. GDG

    GDG Well-Known Member Full Member

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    But couldn't you just say Pac is not jumping up in wieght as his last 2 fights have been at 147 and 140 respectively??

    Floyd gives away weight in most of his fights as he doesn't put on weight after the weigh in.

    Mosley (though having had 2 fights @ 147) missed out 140 before fighting DLH.

    I'm not sure what the point of this thread is??
     
  12. horst

    horst Guest

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    Pac will give away 8-10lbs on the night against a top-class opponent.

    Did Mosley against Oscar?
    Has Floyd beaten anyone of Cotto's quality at welterweight who was in their prime?
     
  13. GDG

    GDG Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The weight Pac started his pro career gets severely overplayed.

    Pac started at that weight as he had little amatuer experience, people forget that RJJ fought as a light MW at the start of his career, or perhaps more relevantly....that Floyd won golden gloves at 106 and 112 in 1993 and 1994 respectively.

    If you factor that in, any win Floyd had @147 is pretty special.

    The way I see it, whatever you weigh you weigh. By choice Pac would be a 140lber right now, so he's really only going up 1 division.
     
  14. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You mentioned Hagler-Leonard,but Leonard was past it and Hagler was completely shot.
     
  15. GDG

    GDG Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm guessing Chico outweighed Floyd by a hell of a lot on fight night.

    And we all know, if Pac KO's Cotto in 5, he wont be called "prime" then.