Better opposition , Ali or Evander ...

Unforgiven.

You bring up the Spinks, Holmes and Berbick fights, but slate a guy who mentions Evanders losses against guys in his 30's and 40's?

The Ali that fought Holmes was 38 going on 50.

You say Evander was past his best in 1992 when he fought Bowe the first time to validate Evander, but at the same time forgetting that Ali was banned for over 3 years before fighting Frazier at 29 years old.

Holyfield lost twice to Bowe, Moorer, Lewis, Ruiz, Toney, Donald etc. You claim he was past prime as an excuse since Bowe 1 in 1992 at 30 years old.

Evander fought them guys but never dominated them and lost most of them. A past prime Ali beat Frazier X 2, Norton x 2, Quarry x 2, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, Spinks.

Is Vaughn Bean really better than Ron Lyle?

Evander should has quit after losing to Lewis, like Ali should have quit when he beat Spinks.

 

On the contrary, you have it backwards.

He brought up Evander losing to Byrd, Toney, Ruiz x3, and looking ordinary against Bean, and in the same post said an "old" Ali "losing his speed and reflexes" was beating all the young pedigreed fighters.

Yes.
And Holyfield now is like 50 going on 38.
So, it's a pointless argument. Holyfield is better old than Ali was.

Ali was past his best against Frazier, nowhere did I say otherwise.
But what do you want me to do ?
Do you want me to say a 29 year old Ali is equivalent of a 41 year old Holyfield ?
If so, that's where I draw the line and say "bull****!".
Holyfield in 1992 or 1993 (age 30 to 31) is about equivalent of a 29 year old Ali, and I might be really generous and say any time up to 34 or 35 !

And you're talking as if I want it weighed in Holyfield's favour !

No, I'm not using past prime as an excuse. I say 1993-'94 it was obvious Holyfield was an aging fighter, but it's not really an excuse for any loss. Until we get to Ruiz, Toney and Donald ......... you wanna mention any of those late career losses, damn right, you better be prepared to accept Ali's losses to Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick !

Yeah, and a past prime Holyfield beat Bowe, Mercer, Tyson x2, Moorer, Ruiz, Rahman, and arguably Valuev !

I'm not even arguing Holyfield has a better resume. Ali has the better resume.

No. Who said he was ?

Yes, but that doesn't seem to stop you bringing up losses against Toney, Donald, Ruiz and you complain when I counter with Spinks, Holmes and Berbick.

It's not me using double-standards, I was just responding to them.

 

I only brought up those Evander losses because i thought you were holding Ali losses when he was shot gainst him.

But...Ali losses to Holmes and Berbick look better on paper than Holyfields losses to Donald, Toney and Ruiz.

Plus, yet again, past prime Evander beat an past prime Tyson x2, while past prime Ali beat a prime Foreman.

Ali's win v Foreman is better than Evander's win v Tyson.
Holmes is a all-time great, plus Berbick did become a belt holder four years after fighting Ali.

Who is Donald at Heavy, ever won a title? Valuev? I don't rate him over Floyd Patterson, Jerry Quarry and many other of Ali's fringe list. Valuev is not a all time great, plus Evander lost (on record) anyway.

 

Plus Toney was not a Heavyweight and beat a 40 year old Evander, dropping him with a body shot.

Ali at 40 does not get dropped by Toney