All time top 20 lists?

You're correct on all three counts IMO. There isn't even a good argument for having Ali above Charles or Louis above Fitzsimmons. Langford or Robinson is a toss-up, but I like Langford's resume and weight-jumping a little bit more.

 

I think it does. If it comes to the choice between a single-weight division dominator or a multi-weight champ, I usually sway towards the latter. It's fair enough if someone maybe felt they didn't have the physical frame for it, but a great fighter should still have the "mental frame" for the challenge. Many ATG fighters didn't (Pep, Monzon, Hagler, etc), and that's why they lost extremely close battles for placings with guys like Barney Ross and SRL in my rankings. Even if someone has a very strong resume at their weight, I always think that wins acquired against bigger men are just that bit more impressive, so a multi-weight resume edges a single-weight resume (obviously these rules don't impinge upon heavyweight ratings). JMHO.

 

Are you insinuating that Hagler or Monzon lacked the testicular fortitude to step up in weight?

 

well Pep had challenges in the Featherweight division in top contenders and he fought heavier guys in non title fights regulary.

I can undertand a win over a bigger guy is better but i would prefer say Monzons domination over the MWs to Jones Jrs more selective weight jumping

 

Saddler would fit in the 20's for me.

 

Get back to the General forum. You clearly know nothing.

 

I am stating that men who did fight bigger men proved they had the steel for it, whereas men who never jumped weight may well have been capable of it but obviously cannot be given credit for it, thus I tend to sway towards the weight-jumpers whenever there is a close call.

Look at my rating of Monzon though, it is clear I rate him extremely highly.

If I had Michael Spinks or Bob Foster above me, I doubt I'd have been straining at the leash to move up either.

 

I only go with the weight-jumper in a close call usually. I'm not saying weight-jumpers are uniformly better. I have Monzon in my top 20, I don't have Jones. I rate Hagler far, far higher than I do De La Hoya or Mayweather.

 

Agreed. Pep is a top bracket guy.

 

Well, you mention having a "mental frame" for moving up, implying that those who didn't do so probably lack it. That's the point I took umbrage with.

Some could imply that moving up in weight is more a sign of avoiding somebody left behind in weight, moreso than a desire to test themselves against bigger competition.

It's a two sided sword.

 

fair enough

pep is in my top 10

 

1. SRR
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Ezzard Charles
4. Duran
5. Pep
6. Benny Leonard
7. Ali
8. Fitzsimmons
9. Greb
10. Archie Moore
11. Mickey Walker
12. SRL
13. Barney Ross
14. Sandy Saddler
15. Joe Louis
16. Sam Langford
17. Carlos Monzon
18. Alexis Arguello
19. Pernell Whittaker
20. Jose Napoles