Kid Chocolate vs Tony Canzoneri I- The best technical slugfest of all time?

Sweet Pea · Nov 4, 2009

A bit rash, I know. That was more or less just a pick-up line for the thread, but this is indeed a fantastic battle. One I can't say I agree with the decision on, though. Canzoneri got the decision on the judges cards, but I felt the night belonged to Chocolate. Obviously a very close affair, but I just couldn't help being thoroughly impressed the entire way through with Chocolate's wide array of efficient techniques. I thought for the most part he landed the cleaner blows, was more effective defensively, and had Canzoneri puzzled a lot more often than vice-versa. Chocolate is probably the earliest example of a truly modernized stylist I've ever seen on film. His ability to slip, roll, and counter effectively in rapid succession was breath-taking. His lateral movement and jab were on key. His ability to slug it out in an in-fight with the stronger man was critical, and the techniques he displayed at every facet of the game were clearly the inspiration for a lot of the more unorthodox but technically efficient stylists to come along in subsequent generations.

Check out the slip, roll, and counter display he puts on Canzoneri from about the 7:08 to 7:15 mark here, and bear in mind this is the 14th round of a consistently high paced bout.

[yt]gkRKje3olIE[/yt]

Manassa · Nov 4, 2009

Chocolate is probably the earliest example of a truly modernized stylist I've ever seen on film.
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Same. He's the prototype. Even Benny Leonard was still a bit of a Jim Driscoll whereas Chocolate was pretty much a small Kid Gavilan.

GPater11093 · Nov 4, 2009

im goign to have to check this out

Mr Butt · Nov 4, 2009

apparently his first fight with berg was an amazing fight too,

and yes i am talking about chocolate although bergs win over canzoneri was pretty amazing too

great watch thanks

nastynas · Nov 4, 2009

That sequence was beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

Side note: Did any of you guys catch when Tyson said in his documentary that Kid Chocolate was one of his influences?

My2Sense · Nov 4, 2009

Sweet Pea said: ↑

Canzoneri got the decision on the judges cards, but I felt the night belonged to Chocolate.
Click to expand...

When did you become a Klitschko fan?

bladerunner · Nov 4, 2009

That sequence was absolutely brilliant.

guilalah · Nov 6, 2009

I watched it all. WONDERFUL. So great to see guys ad******g. Canzoneri knows what to do to take away Kid Chocolate's speed; but then you see the Kid knew how to fight inside, even though that wasn't his primary game. VERY WELL ROUNDED FIGHTERS.

Manassa · Nov 6, 2009

******.

teeto · Nov 6, 2009

Sweet Pea said: ↑

A bit rash, I know. That was more or less just a pick-up line for the thread, but this is indeed a fantastic battle. One I can't say I agree with the decision on, though. Canzoneri got the decision on the judges cards, but I felt the night belonged to Chocolate. Obviously a very close affair, but I just couldn't help being thoroughly impressed the entire way through with Chocolate's wide array of efficient techniques. I thought for the most part he landed the cleaner blows, was more effective defensively, and had Canzoneri puzzled a lot more often than vice-versa. Chocolate is probably the earliest example of a truly modernized stylist I've ever seen on film. His ability to slip, roll, and counter effectively in rapid succession was breath-taking. His lateral movement and jab were on key. His ability to slug it out in an in-fight with the stronger man was critical, and the techniques he displayed at every facet of the game were clearly the inspiration for a lot of the more unorthodox but technically efficient stylists to come along in subsequent generations.

Check out the slip, roll, and counter display he puts on Canzoneri from about the 7:08 to 7:15 mark here, and bear in mind this is the 14th round of a consistently high paced bout.

[yt]gkRKje3olIE[/yt]
Click to expand...

Quality, remember the Manuel Ortiz-Castillo vid on here, that was a great one as well for the inside fighting.

dpw417 · Nov 6, 2009

Sweet Pea said: ↑

A bit rash, I know. That was more or less just a pick-up line for the thread, but this is indeed a fantastic battle. One I can't say I agree with the decision on, though. Canzoneri got the decision on the judges cards, but I felt the night belonged to Chocolate. Obviously a very close affair, but I just couldn't help being thoroughly impressed the entire way through with Chocolate's wide array of efficient techniques. I thought for the most part he landed the cleaner blows, was more effective defensively, and had Canzoneri puzzled a lot more often than vice-versa. Chocolate is probably the earliest example of a truly modernized stylist I've ever seen on film. His ability to slip, roll, and counter effectively in rapid succession was breath-taking. His lateral movement and jab were on key. His ability to slug it out in an in-fight with the stronger man was critical, and the techniques he displayed at every facet of the game were clearly the inspiration for a lot of the more unorthodox but technically efficient stylists to come along in subsequent generations.

Check out the slip, roll, and counter display he puts on Canzoneri from about the 7:08 to 7:15 mark here, and bear in mind this is the 14th round of a consistently high paced bout.

[yt]gkRKje3olIE[/yt]
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting. I've wondered about this fight. Going to have to get it now.

horst · Nov 6, 2009

Sweet Pea said: ↑

A bit rash, I know. That was more or less just a pick-up line for the thread, but this is indeed a fantastic battle. One I can't say I agree with the decision on, though. Canzoneri got the decision on the judges cards, but I felt the night belonged to Chocolate. Obviously a very close affair, but I just couldn't help being thoroughly impressed the entire way through with Chocolate's wide array of efficient techniques. I thought for the most part he landed the cleaner blows, was more effective defensively, and had Canzoneri puzzled a lot more often than vice-versa. Chocolate is probably the earliest example of a truly modernized stylist I've ever seen on film. His ability to slip, roll, and counter effectively in rapid succession was breath-taking. His lateral movement and jab were on key. His ability to slug it out in an in-fight with the stronger man was critical, and the techniques he displayed at every facet of the game were clearly the inspiration for a lot of the more unorthodox but technically efficient stylists to come along in subsequent generations.

Check out the slip, roll, and counter display he puts on Canzoneri from about the 7:08 to 7:15 mark here, and bear in mind this is the 14th round of a consistently high paced bout.

[yt]gkRKje3olIE[/yt]
Click to expand...

Where do you rank Whitaker-McGirt I as a technical slugfest??

Sweet Pea · Nov 6, 2009

Popkins said: ↑

Where do you rank Whitaker-McGirt I as a technical slugfest??
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It's up there as well, definitely. I think I'll watch a Whitaker fight right now. one of the two McGirt fights. The second was a particularly impressive display from Whitaker, probably his best above LW outside of the Chavez fight (though the boxing lesson he gave to Pineda was a great one as well). I'm home, I'm high. Seems like the perfect time.

sweet_scientist · Nov 6, 2009

Canzoneri won this fight pretty easily on my scorecard. Though neither man submitted to the other and both went hard for all 15 rounds, I felt that once Choc's speed died down a little the fight was being dictated by Canzoneri's heavy body work. A lot of close rounds throughout, but I guess I saw most of them going one way here.

147-139 Canzoneri
Chocolate: 5 and 14.
Canzoneri: 1,3,6,7,8,10,11,12,13 and 15.
Rounds 2,4 ( 9-9 ), and 9 even.

My2Sense · Nov 6, 2009

sweet_scientist said: ↑

Canzoneri won this fight pretty easily on my scorecard. Though neither man submitted to the other and both went hard for all 15 rounds, I felt that once Choc's speed died down a little the fight was being dictated by Canzoneri's heavy body work. A lot of close rounds throughout, but I guess I saw most of them going one way here.

147-139 Canzoneri
Chocolate: 5 and 14.
Canzoneri: 1,3,6,7,8,10,11,12,13 and 15.
Rounds 2,4 ( 9-9 ), and 9 even.

Click to expand...

I've seen a lot of divergent opinions on this fight. Some reports share your view, that Canzoneri controlled it with his pressure and harder punching. Others side with Sweet Pea, believing that Chocolate's better boxing and cleaner, sharper hitting should've snared him the decision. Personally, I kinda lean towards the latter assessment of the fight. I felt Chocolate outboxed him in the middle rounds and held him at least even, if not better during the late round exchanges.

Chocolate had one of those styles that often made fights hard to score though, and he featured in a lot of disputed decisions going either way in his career.

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