Henry Armstrong nuthugging thread - why he was the greatest fighter of all time

I've seen stuff of him against Miceli, Jack, Cardell, Bolanos and Bratton I think. Not sure about his fights with Gavilan, do they even exist on film? That I would like to see. I think I've seen a bit more but can't really remember; my memory's like a bloody sieve.

I've hijacked your thread slightly here. Glad it got some good replies after the early numnut invasion. Not that I'm naming any names....

 

Yeah there's that footage, and Gatica... And Bolanos III. Don't think the Gavilan fights exist.

 

Out of interest, who were the other 2 lightweights you picked to beat Armstrong?

 

Roberto Duran, narrowly, and Pernell Whitaker who I'm not dead set on.

I reckon Armstrong was the best at 126/130lbs though.

 

Be interesting to see if Whitaker could hold his own on the inside and if his punch output could match Armstrong's; he was no slouch himself in either department. Armstrong brought a different game to the table than JCC, Ramirez or Nelson. Pea's defensive mastery coupled with his offensive output would be a big test for Armstrong though.

Aye, Armstrong was the Don around 130 or so; he'd beat Mayweather handily IMO. Arguello would be an interesting one and a good stylistic matchup too, though I think Armstrong would grind AA down and bust him up a bit.

 

Yep.

He was a legitimate lightweight when he trounced Ross to win the WW title and then when he beat the #1 WW contender (Garcia) to defend that title. He only engaged in two title fights at lightweight, but as a lightweight himself, he was arguably more accomplished than any 135-pound fighter in history. Besides, Lou Ambers is not to be scoffed at either: he's arguably a top 20, if not top 15 all-time LW himself.

Personally, I rate Armstrong as the #2 LW of all time, just behind Benny Leonard, and I could easily see them as being interchangeable.

 

If I did lists seriously then I'd also rate him at 2 I think. Behind Leonard like you said.

He has a case to be ranked in the top ten at feather, light AND welter respectively. How many others can make that claim? Even if I am pushing the subjective boat out?

 

Realistically, you could put forth a reasonable argument for Armstrong being in the top three for featherweight, lightweight and welterweight.

Although I think the first two would have a lot to do with ability. Armstrong's #5 on my welterweight list mainly for his dominant reign and eighteen title defences.

#5 or so at featherweight, and around the #7 mark at lightweight. It's only because I put more emphasis on accomplishments and certain fighters achieved more in specific weight classes - of course, nobody else scaled all three quite as successfully.

 

Top 3 in each class might be pushing it in the eyes of some, but I wouldn't overtly argue with anyone who stated as such. Like you said, it comes to whether or not you value record over H2H potential. Or the fact that Armstrong weighed in as a virtual lightweight much of the time anyway. I just stated myself that I might well rate him as the number 2 lightweight behind Leonard, though I've never really developed a consistent criteria concerning such stuff: my rankings mainly go on who I take a shine to.

About as subjective as you can get. 'Objectivity' is a false notion to a certain degree if you ask me.

 

Here it is:

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This was not one of Duran's more spectacular performances. He seemed a bit uncomfortable and tentative about engaging Thompson on the inside. Personally, I don't believe Duran was as strong and sturdy at 135 as he later was above the weight. Most of his opponents at 135 were slick boxers who couldn't really punch, and he was able to tear right into them and bully them around as he pleased. One of the few solid punchers he did fight at the weight, DeJesus, had him down in two separate fights; and both DeJesus and Thompson were apparently strong and/or powerful enough on the inside to convince Duran to change his style and fight more from a distance. I don't believe Armstrong would've had to take a backward step from either of those guys (he certainly never took a backward step from anyone he did fight); and if Duran could be deterred from fighting inside by guys like those, how would he handle Armstrong? - he certainly couldn't outbox or outsmart him. Armstrong proved he could stand toe-to-toe and outslug all sorts of fighters while weighing 135 or less, ie: slick boxers (Belloise, Roderick), brawling infighters (Arizmendi), aggressive technicians (Sarron), dynamite punchers (Garcia), and all-around greats (Ross, Ambers). From what I've seen of both men, I would definitely favor Armstrong over Duran at 135.

 

Hector looked stronger than Cervantes too, incidentally.He deserved a rematch there.

 

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top 3 at 3 weights is a push but hes definitly top 10

 

One of the most brutal stoppages I have yet to see. Ref definitely could of jumped in earlier.

 

I'm sure 'weird' is an exception to the rule though.

By the way the full phrase is 'i before e except after c, but only when the sounding is e'

people only use the first part these days though.