Jeffries: 'Tough' tough, or Hvywt fighting Little guys?

This we know ,but that was not my question Chris.

 

Jeffries versus Hart would not have drawn flies.Jeffries versus Johnson would have been a block buster.
Johnson and Jeffries shared an absolute fortune when they finally met and Jeffries had been out of the ring for over 5 years.
There was a lot of publicity and hoo hah asking if Jeffries would make Johnson his next challenger ,there was no such buzz about a fight with Hart,it was never even considered.
I said part of the reason Jeffries retired, not the only one, was because he would not take the chance of losing to a black man ,something he categorically stated several times himself.I did not say Jeffries ducked anyone.
Why do you assume I lean towards blacks in my preferences? Do you think I am black? Or anti white? Are you going to call me a racist arsehole again?
Hart did not fight Jeffries, because, no one thought it would make a cent.
That was NOT the case with Johnson,as newspapers of the time attest.

 

Even though I take the statement at face value as a simple statement from Langford's manager to "protect" Sam from Jeffries, I dont think Jeffries' necessarily beats Langford.

The date is June 21, 1909, and as of that time Langford had NOT beaten a plethora of 210+ guys at all, he probably wasn't quite at his strongest, Jeffries' MYTHICAL reputation was at it's peak, Jeffries had not come back yet.

 

I doubt it. Seems to me that Jeffries didn't think the heavyweight title should be open to blacks. At least then. He did speak well of Louis when Joe was champ. Sometimes people views change. (Example: Tris Speaker was a klansman; but he later helped Larry Doby learn centerfield -- Doby mentioned his help in his HOF acceptance speech).

Around 1913 Jeffries opined that Langford could name the round with all the current white hopes.

 

Well, I got my world rocked last night! Was reading apollack's (Adam Pollack's) 'In the Ring w/ James J. Jeffries' -- highly recommended -- and discovered that, just after winning the title, Jeffries said that he'd defend against qualified challengers, regardless of color. Browsed around the book, and it seems like the first color-line reference is when a reporter asked Jeffries about Denver Martin, and Delaney very quickly says that Jeff draws the color line, can't take a chance on America having to bow down to a negro. Certainly, Jeffries adopted this line of thought ... It doesn't seem to be how Jeffries originally looked on the title; too bad he bought into this line of thinking.

 

It is all publicity. I personally have no doubt that Jeffries would have fought JOhnson if JOhnson beat Hart, and i actually think they were building towards a fight. The problem with the colour fighters, is that at the time Jeffries was champ, they did not stand out over and above the other white contenders, in fact for most of the time they were well below them. I agree it is a shame, but i dont think too much blame to lay at Jeffries feet, if any. He had already beat their best name fighters.

 

There was reams of copy in papers, asking if ,and when, Jeffries would defend against Johnson ,your statement is erroneous, there was great interest ,in this fight and none in a defence against Hart.
Whatever the merits of the decision given for Hart against Johnson ,Johnson was perceived as the better man,and the man most people wanted to seee in the other corner against Jeffries.

 

There was never a significant and secured money offer for Jeffries to met Johnson for the 1.5 year window ( mid 1903-1905 ) when Johnson could be viewed as a top challenger.

Johnson has no one to blame for himself for letting Hart out work him in the entire second half of their 20 round match.

 

Obviously none of us were there when Jeffries was around. The closest i can imagine is when Mike Tyson cleaned out the division. Shortly after he knocked out Michael Spinks. There was literally nobody around for Mike to fight. He had fought everybody and literally cruised by everybody. Just before he lost to Douglas, everyone was building an Evander Holyfield fight. The papers built it up a bit, and he would have been a creditable opponent but if Tyson had decided to retire instead, there would be nothing in the concept that he had ducked Holyfield. If Holyfield had lost a controversial points decision to the number one contender (for arguments sake, say Buster Douglas), and Tyson then decided to take a defence and retire, there would be no credence in the idea that Tyson ducked Holyfield, just becaue he had said somewhere along the line that he would not be defending against Holyfield (again for arguments sake, perhaps it could be because he had already beaten easily light heavyweight or cruiserweight champions and the public did not want to see such a fight).

 

Jeffries patently did not want the fight ,and would not have accepted it whatever money was on the table.
I agree with you Johnson picked the wrong time to get lazy,he had a golden opportunity to cement his claims as the foremost contender and blew it. He should have beaten Hart without too much trouble,and certainly left no doubt he was the" man".
Though the referee/promoter justified his scoring by saying "I allways give points for aggression".If he had been the sole judge last night ,Valuev would likely still be champ.