New Book - In the Ring With James J. Jeffries

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by apollack, Oct 1, 2009.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I absolutely agree with you. In fact I tossed up this article about exactly that a few months ago:

    http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=21062&more=1

    Which is now entirely worthless :lol:

    Quick! Anyone who hasn't read the book, read it!!
     
  2. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I read ahead a bit more on Jeffries-Fitzsimmons I. Initially there was going to be no punching in the clinches but eventually they settled that a fighter could try to fight free if only one man was holding. (p. 221)
     
  3. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm into the preperation for Jeffries challenge of Fitzsimmons.

    Assesments of Jeffries foot-speed and technique seem continually back-and-forth.

    I think I now have a more nuanced view of Corbett-Sharkey II. It was a competitive fight. Corbett probably landed more, while Sharkey's punches had more effect. The general feeling was that Sharkey was probably going to wear Corbett down before the 20 rounds were over; but some thought Corbett had seen Sharkey's worst and was turning the fight his way. They were fighting on Sharkey's terms, in the clinches, when it ended, but Corbett was holding his own. They had agreed not to fight in clinches, but Sharkey had mostly disregarded this agreement. Nobody seem to claim or notice any ankle injury on Corbett's part (which Jim later claimed).
    Sharkey was a tough style for Jim, but it might be going a little strong to say he had Corbett's number.
     
  4. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm into the post-fight analysis of Jeffries succesful title challenge against Fitzsimmons.

    This is one fight where Jim scored the KO with a right. Could have used either hand, Fitz out on his feet with arms hanging. Jeffries seems mostly to have used the right for body work, the left was used on the whole target. This being the case, naturally the left is going to account for more 'terminations'; but we shouldn't assume Jeff's right was much less forceful than his left; mostly just used differently.

    Jeffries was pretty cautious and in no hurry. Often the crowd exorted him to finish Fitz, but Jeffries waited till Bob was gone gone. Interestingly, the analysis in the papers, rather than chiding him, laud Jeffries patience and coolness, saying he fought like a veteran. The fact that Jeffries took his time, didn't take chances and broke down his man methodically was viewed, at the time, as a positive. I think that's the main thing I've gotten from the books coverage of this fight.

    This is one fight where Jeffries speed, cleverness and generalship was praised. His corner seems to have done an excellent job preparing him.

    Fitzsimmons did well rounds 4-7 and held his own in the eighth and nineth.

    Still have 65% of a book to go! :happy
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Did Appollack make any reference to Bob Davis's remarks concerning this fight ?
    Davis was in Fitz's corner, and stated several times after the fight,and through the years,that,Fitz smashed his hands during the fight,realized he had nothing left to fight with ,and came out to ring centre,extended his hands and spoke to Jeffries," saying hit me Jeff ",Jeffries did so and Fitz went down.Just wondered if Appollack had a point of view on this?
    It is a matter of record that Fitz spoke to Jeffries immediately prior to the knockout.
     
  6. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    McVey, you are alluding to the second fight, not the first. And yes, I do discuss all that in the chapter on the second fight. It isn't exactly as Davis and other fanciful writers would have you believe, but there was some controversy. It isn't black and white whether Fitz spoke or exactly what he said if he did. Even Bob and Jeff's quotes have to be taken with a grain of salt due to the time's yellow journalism, meaning writers sometimes just made these quotes up, then dispatches repeated them. Anyway, there is a lot to it, so I'll allow those who read the chapter to give their assessments and interpretations.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I know it was the second fight I never stated otherwise .I will buy your book ,and hope it finally clears some of these stories up.
    Davis was himself a journalist and working for the press at the time of the fight, as no doubt you know.
     
  8. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    One comment on Jeffries-Fitzsimmons I said that Jeffries use of his left resembled a cat's swat. That would be long range use, with a half-extended left. Inside, I'd imagine he bent the arm more.




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    Finished the chapter on Jeffries-Fitzsimmons. Well, if the quotes are accurate, Jeffries says he hits harder with the left; but he also says body blows won the fight, particularly with his right.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If you weigh 206lbs and your opponent weighs 167lbs and is 36,and in the rematch you weight is 219lbs and your opponent's 172lbs,and he is a month short of his 39th birthday ,I should think body blows would be very effective.
    Lets say you are in your prime the heavyweight champion, 25 years old. ,you are facing a man coming out of retirement ,38 ,allmost 39 years old ,who has not fought in 2 years ,that man is a super middle weight ,and you have 47lbs weight advantage over him.How great is your victory , if he last 8rds and beats your face to a pulp?
     
  10. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Well, when the old little guy can KO every other man currently on the face of the Earth -- yeah, I'd say that's a pretty good victory.
     
  11. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Am now starting the chapter on Jeffries preparations to defend against Sharkey.

    Was rather suprised, to say the least, to learn that -- just after winning the title -- Jeffries said he'd defend against all qualified challengers regardless of race. Wish Jim would have stuck with that resolution.

    Jeffries certainly never bought into the idea of his 'invulnerability'. He's refreshingly candid that he fights cautiously because he doesn't want to run into a blow. I suspect his basic thought was that he'd eventually wear anyone down as long as he wasn't a party to bringing about his own knock-out.

    Interesting that, right after Jeffries won the title, Sullivan was still the standard for comparison -- despite some outstanding intervening heavyweights.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It is not really surprizing given that Sullivan had regularly defeded his title while his sucessors had not.
     
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I wonder is Adam mentions the injury Jeffries sustained in camp with the medicine ball, which delayed the Sharkey match.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I am a big Fitz fan ,but your statement that a retired Fitz who has not fought in two years ,39 years old , could come out of retirement and scaling 172lbs, ko every heavyweight now active,is rather sweeping ,to say the least.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Fitz was a freak. His come back trial was a furious one, with 5 Ko's in a row, two of which were blow outs over Sharkey and Ruhlin.

    After Fitz lost to Jeffreis in the 2nd match, he won five fights in a row again, including the light heavyweight crown vs, Gardner.

    Clearly Fitzsimmons was in good form prior to meeting Jeffries, and post meeting Jeffries.