The science of punch resistance

Insightful article from Ross Enamit on this topic:

http://www.rossboxing.com/thegym/thegym15.htm

 

Private Message discussion on chin and chin strength, credit to LiamE

 

Actually the brain sacrifices fluid much more readily then one might think. Pretty much whenever a person i physically dehydrated their cranial fluid levels decrease. Infact when you are hung-over the headache you get is mostly from distention of the nuerons that anchor your brain to your skull. i.e. There isn't enough fliud in your brain to keep it properly floating in your head, gravity pulls it down, the brain pulls on the connective nuerons and you feel pain....

 

Some boxers just do or don't have good "chins". It has nothing to do with their ability in the ring. A strong neck probbly helps but if you are hit hard enough in the right spot you are going to go down maby not for a 10 count but you will go down.

 

Now this is real science :good

 

word. good point.

 

Knockout supposedly occurs when the skull strikes the brain. This occurs because the head is jolted in the opposite direction of the punch, while the brain is floating in liquid so it doesn't move. The skull then strikes the brain.

Another possibility is that the entire head moves backward, along with the brain, but then the boxer resists the jolt and pulls their head back forward, causing the still-moving brain to strike the skull because of inertia. This could be initiated by the first instance. It is similar to falling backward and hitting your head on the sidewalk.


So because the origin of the knockout is the head being violently jolted, anything which can decrease the violence of the jolt will increase the knockout resistance of a fighter. This would be things like a short neck or a strong neck, or the way the skull sits and how the angles of tissue attachment from the skull to the neck disperse the force of a punch.

Ex: Some boxers' heads move distinctly when they are punched (Wlad), while others' do not move much (Tua).

Other possibilities that could protect the brain are: the ratio between the size of the brain and the size of the brain cavity (more fluid around the brain could give more protection because the skull has more time to decelerate before it strikes the brain), the thickness of the meninges, and even anatomical differences between brains themselves that can affect knockout vulnerability from blows.

 

Example number one amir khan.

 

I just realized that reaction speed and muscle quickness are other inherent factors that could come into play. If a blow strikes, but a fighter is more prepared for it because his mental reaction speed is fast, he can brace himself. Similarly, if he already saw it coming but it still strikes, muscle quickness will allow him to more rapidly stiffen his neck muscles to absorb the jolt.

 

Fantastic thread InternationButt!!

It's late here (3:34am), so I don't want to get into this now but I would hate to miss out on this conversation! Is there anyway I can subscribe to your thread, mate?

Cheers and nice one!

EDIT: Figured it out. If anyone else wants to know, at the top right see "thread tools", click that drop down menu and hit "subscribe".

 

Possibly I can see your point about reflexs. Obviously being able to ride punches will lessen the force of their impact. But at the sametime I've noticed that if anything fighters with more elastic muscles get ****ed up worse and end up with longer term physical effects (a la fpugilistic dementia) more then fighters with slower twitch muscles. I.e. Chevalo vs Ali. But thats just an observation.

My thinking is that if you have snappy (quick reflex) muscles they will be more likely to extend and contract morea rapidly and with greater force. Leading to greater impact of the brain on the skull. Both when it hits the fore-skull and when is bounces back and hits the posterior part of the skull. Contrast that to someone who has slower reflex muscles. the muscles would take more energy to strech and would strech at a slower rate. Thus a) the displacement of the brain would be reduced and b) and the forces transfered to the brain by the skull would be reduced.

 

Excellent thread. LaMotta attributed his inhuman punch resistance to mental detachment and relaxation.

 

Thats pretty interesting.

 

Anecdotal evidence. I cannot examine this claim because this is a statement with no avenue to prove or disprove it. Still, Wikipedia lists, under "Dementia pugilistica," similar numbers of fast and slow fighters with the condition

First, you have not given any evidence against my theory, which involved increased ability to brace before the punch hits due to reaction speed and muscle quickness, which would lessen the displacement of the skull, and lessen the chance of it striking the brain.

Second, how could better reflexes worsen the event of the foreskull striking the brain after receiving a punch? That makes no sense. The act of the foreskull striking the brain is caused by the punch.

Your idea that increased muscle quickness could increase the damage to the brain by accelerating the posterior of the skull more rapidly toward the back of the brain when the boxer pulls his head back into position is legitimate, but there is a problem I can think of:

The initial blow of the punch pushing the foreskull into the brain is far more damaging than the secondary effect of the brain hitting the back of the skull because the forces involved are greater (a punch to the face generates more force than you pulling your head back into position).

Therefore, decreasing the severity of the initial punch by being able to brace better through muscle quickness and fast reaction time would likely prevent more damage than it would cause.

Not only that, but if the superior bracing lessened the effect of the initial punch enough, the secondary blow at the posterior of the skull may not occur at all.

 

Yeah I fully admit its only an anecdotal observation. And there are many other factors like physical conditioning and number of blows taken that cumlinate to cause result in long term brain damage. It was more meant to be food for thought.

I wasn't actually disagreeing with you so much as I was looking at the factors that you were considering and pointing out how they may in another context lead to reduced punch resistance. Additionally, I have to admitt that I may not have been fully clear with my idea because I wasn't talking about the boxer's muscles snapping his skull back towards his brain. I was talking about how easily it is (i.e. force required) to strech his muscles relative to someone with a different muscle type. So I was mainly talking about the initial displacement, which if large enough would cause his brain to be knocked by the front of is skull to the back.

In basic terms my point was if one's muscles are more elastic then it takes less force to displace them. If a person has reduced elasticity it takes more force to stretch his muscles a similar distance. Top class fighters with fast reflexes have stretchier muscles. Top class fighters with slower reflexes have less elastic muscles (i.e. Chavez vs Taylor). What as saying was the second type seem to absorb blows better. In an exaggerated sense it would be like punching rubber verse punching vulconized rubber.

The rest of your logic is sound.

If I had to disagree with you on one point it would be your idea that fighters with faster reflexes would have a significant advantage over slower fighters when it comes to taking a punch do to the ability to brace for a punch. They would obviously be better at rolling/riding with punches but if by brace you simply mean muscle contracture speed I would have to disagree. Between average joe and a professional boxer there might be a significant difference in time between when they see a punch coming and when their muscles tense to absorb the blow. but between top class boxers with different muscle types I doubt there would be a significant difference. You could of course have the same view with regards to my theory. Eitherway, good debate.