I don't think so either. I just think that it is possible for the way that sports are played to change, especially when they are relatively new, as MMA is. The other poster had an interesting point though. Does the variability of MMA mean that the way it is practiced won't change as much as a sport, like boxing, with a more limited set of allowed moves? I would tend to think that styles will eventually congeal around a more limited move-set that is drawn from various different maritial arts, but is adapted to the realities of MMA. Even then there would still be room for people who are strikers, submission specialists ect.
Probably. But against top caliber competition...the stance of his era wouldn't be ideal or to his advantage. It isn't just about Sullivan....A guy like Tyson would've had way more problems using sullivan's boxing stance. (Tyson took example on Dempsey in particular)...Dempsey's style & stance is ideal for any eras.
The rule..yes...but the discipline. (the moves) are classic...Greco is Greco. Just like in soccer...(some rule modifications) but the game itself is identical. In boxing...for example , there used to be 15 rounds if i'm correct. (right ?) ... Today the limit is 12. But we're not talking about these types of differences. (which can be found in all sports)...even in mma today. Pride fc for example used to allow soccer kicks & knees on a downed opponent. Ufc allows elbows , etc...etc. But the Sullivan stance is a whole different issue.
Interesting. Something to think about, though: First off, notice that I said that future fans would think him primitive. That isn't to say that he actually WAS, but I think that's what the perception will be. Why? Well, it will probably look something like this: ...Personally, I think Fedor's approach would work pretty well in ANY era, but I do think that there will be some refinements and talent pool improvements in the next fifty years. It certainly wouldn't be a mismatch like the abovesaid troll would have you believe. Then again, neither would Sullivan vs. Liston. Actually, chess is very different today from what it was even fifty years ago. The level of knowledge about openings, endgames, and general positioning that Kasparov learned in the 20th century would allow him to destroy Philidor or Morphy in relatively short order, even though both of these men were incredibly talented. (Not that this is particularly relevant...)
:think I'd compare guys like Kimura, Gracie, and Abbott to Figg, Broughton, and Cribb. The EARLY pioneers. When Sullivan came along, gloves had been in use for almost two hundred years (although mostly in sparring).
Put boxers in MMA gloves, and you'd probably see more people fighting like Sullivan. Again, not necessarily relevant to the current debate, but I thought I'd throw it in.
you make a lof of points which i agree with here....and i think the essential one that only matters is However , i still think the sullivan comparison is inapropriate. Not because i think the guy was a can or a top fighter...his talent & skills are a bit irrelevant. What truely bothers me is the incomparable transition / modification boxing had to endure. That never happened with judo or greco or jiujitsu...the disciplines fedor is using are classics from the start. (which is precisely why a guy like this would be super solid for any eras). On the other hand , no one...in boxing , uses this stance today This content is protected And no matter how talented you are... This stance wasn't to the fighter's advantage. (sullivan using modern day boxing stance > vintage sullivan) Also , i don't see mma as a classifiable particular discipline (like boxing is). MMA is like a platform where many different styles test each other. Fedor already had experience in two different disciplines before mma (sambo + judo)... He happens to be be comfortable & dominant with sambo (mixed with a bit of striking & judo)... Of course that doesn't mean that sambo > all... Penn happens to dominate with jiujitsu & a bit of boxing. Aoki mostly uses jiujitsu and not much else..(but like Penn , he's quite limber & can pull some crazy moves) I think boxing is too different to compare...boxing history is too different. The sad reality of MMA's "pioneers"... ? One huge opportunist (Royce Gracie , who was one dimensional no matter the era...but prevailed because he was the only super solid jiujitsu participant)... There' s a controversial book on this issue , i can't remember its title...but there's a passage which explains how the Gracies made sure that no other elite grapplers would participate in order to give Royce even more chances to dominate & make history....an impact on the fans. Their main goal was to introduce jiujitsu to america. (and it worked). I'm not a Gracie hater but i still see him as nothing more than an opportunist. Who would've gotten owned if only 80% of participants would've been elite grapplers...The mystic behind Rickson Gracie is also absurd. (guy who claims to be undefeated against hundreds of different opponents)...of course most of his fans always forget to mention that he used to even count his sparring sessions as "victories"
Valid points all, but bear in mind that Judo and BJJ also require modification for MMA situations--at least as much as early boxing would need to be modified. Incidentally, is this the book you're referring to? [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Total-MMA-Inside-Ultimate-Fighting/dp/1550228463/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257868851&sr=8-1[/ame] About the Gracies... True, Royce fought pretty weak opponents by and large. His biggest accomplishment, IMO, is unifying the three branches of MMA competition. When he beat Shamrock for the first time, he established the UFC title's primacy over Pancrase (since Shamrock went on to win the belt shortly thereafter), and with his victory over Minoki Ichihara--unfortunately, heavily overlooked today--he beat the champion of the foremost Judo/Kyokushin hybrid competition in Japan.
How will Fedor be remembered? As the greatest MMA fighter in history.... possibly for a long long time to come.
is boxing that much different than 100yrs ago? pep,greb,johnson,corbett could'nt compete today? the building blocks are in place the end product is gsp,silva and fedor! the sport as an art has developed it is mature and technically speaking it is at where it is always going to be henceforth.
ali,robinson,pep are fighters for the ages who fought in different eras yet took the fundamentals to a different level just like the 3 i mentioned! sullivan was a drunken bar room brawler! mma guys tend to come in with world class credentials from other sports,and wrap mma around them.
More like the undefeated Rocky Marciano Unfortunately Brock Lesnar will soon lose to someone decisively and then loose the rematch and will seize to become a lucrative opponent, but Fedor will punch him out anywhere after his contract with the UFC ends. I hope UFC and M-1 will co-promote an event or two and give Fedor a shot at the UFC champ in the next 2 years, be it Lesnar or someone else. After beatingthe UFC champ Fedor should retire undefeated and may just very well do so.