"Haye Ran & Was Scared To Fight"

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by TommyV, Nov 10, 2009.


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  1. BITCH ASS

    BITCH ASS "Too Fast" Full Member

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    And people automatically think Wlad would do the same thing to Valuev despite the fact that Valuev would tower Wlad as well.

    This is important because Wlad has never had to fight like the smaller man and currently there is no video evidence available of Wlad ducking punches.

    People just assume that Wlad's lateral movement would be good enough to avoid Valuev's punches even though Haye who has better movement was forced to duck punches numerous times.

    Wlad's height may actually work against him in a fight with Valuev. Haye is a multi dimensional fighter and knew how to move and box well enough to win.

    We can only speculate on what Wlad would do because there is no evidence available of him doing it.

    We know what Valuev will do.

    Why hasn't Wlad vs Valuev happened?
     
    BITCH ASS, Nov 10, 2009
    BITCH ASS, Nov 10, 2009
    #16
  2. yesihavearm2

    yesihavearm2 ESB Chinchecker Full Member

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    Haye never "fell down" to avoid getting hit. Even though I thought Dirrell won clearly, he didnt do himself any favours especially away from home.
     
    yesihavearm2, Nov 10, 2009
    yesihavearm2, Nov 10, 2009
    #17
  3. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    No, the purpose it to win the fight at whatever method you find most effective.

    Haye did..... good for him. Im glad he won.

    but

    There is no booklet where you open it up and it says
    BOXING - TO HIT AND NOT BE HIT

    no.... boxing is the art of offence and defence using your fists.

    However it is that you do that to its maximum effeciency is right.

    Plenty of great fighters win fights off of offence and heart, and still show enough defence and skill to show they are masters of their craft.

    Its funny, fans of this 'not throwing a single punch for one minute' bull**** while retreating for most of the fight, or throwing a whopping 13 punches a round have to resort to the mma card because people want to tune in and see a fight.

    its pretty sad thats all you can say but its all good, thank god more boxers dont have that mindset or boxing would be worse off then it already is.

    so perhaps you should go back to watching your track meets,

    its boxing, the purpose is to beat your opponent.....
    and THAT, is what haye did, indeed.

    but you cant 'fight' like that and expect not to be judged for it. He won, fine... on to better things, but lets stop with the 'oh my god thats boxing at its purest' bull****, because its not.
     
    kirk, Nov 10, 2009
    kirk, Nov 10, 2009
    #18
  4. BITCH ASS

    BITCH ASS "Too Fast" Full Member

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    But boxing is an art though. If you got two guys in there brawling, where is the skill?
     
    BITCH ASS, Nov 10, 2009
    BITCH ASS, Nov 10, 2009
    #19
  5. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Haye talks the fight up. Are you that stupid that you can't see it? That's the reason that this fight in one of the most lacklustre heavyweight divisions of all-time is rumoured to have done close to or over a million PPV's over here in the UK.

    And what happened? Holyfield - rightly or wrongly - lost on the cards. Regardless, Holyfield has a great chin and is rough, tumble & skilled on the inside.

    Haye's gameplan and strengths relied on him boxing on the outside for this fight, so why hate on him for doing what it takes to win?

    How many other fighters in the heavyweight division would of stopped Valuev, let alone inside 6 rounds. He fought the fight that he had to fight to win.

    He fought on the outside, something that plenty of other of boxers have done and not got **** for. Or would you rather watch a punch-bag like Antonio Margarito?

    Who said that? Nobodies claiming Haye to be the New Tyson. Again, he did what he had to do to win the fight.

    Why not **** on Valuev for the performance, given he was the one who wasn't landing? What the **** is Haye supposed to do?

    'Damn, I better stand still and let this guy use my head as a punch-bag. Who cares if I don't win the Heavyweight Title I've been dreaming of since I was a kid, I just hope the fight isn't boring to fans who can't appreciate the art of boxing'.

    Admittedly, I called Dirrell for running in the heated aftermath of the fight. Having settled down, I retracted my comments. Regardless, Dirrell in that fight still excessively clinched & deliberately fell to the canvas to avoid being punched. Yet I always maintained from the beginning that I thought he edged the fight.

    He avoided getting hit. That's the aim of the game. It's not like he continously 'ran' and didn't throw punches at all.

    He moved laterally, which as some of you seem to have forgotten is an art and skill in boxing, and landed all the meaningful punches.

    Good point, and it's a fight that I thought about the other day. We've never seen Wlad show the lateral movement that Haye did in that fight, and he's actually the smaller guy for once in this fight.

    Thought I think his speed and general technical skills may see him to a win. He's definately the better & classier fighter, but his limitations & Valuev's size and similarly cautious and technically-based style may meen he struggles a bit.
     
    TommyV, Nov 10, 2009
    TommyV, Nov 10, 2009
    #20
  6. MrPook

    MrPook Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Boxing = fighting

    Never forget that!

    Thats why boxers are also called fighters.
     
    MrPook, Nov 10, 2009
    MrPook, Nov 10, 2009
    #21
  7. FrochPascal

    FrochPascal Boxing Addict Full Member

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    dont reply to me with that. Holyfield's win was clearer and far better than Haye's. Haye didnt simply 'box on the outside'-he ran-after all that smack he talked.

    The only thing that saved me from being more critical was the 'broken hand'. Which seemed to still be available for him to throw which was strange:huh
     
    FrochPascal, Nov 10, 2009
    FrochPascal, Nov 10, 2009
    #22
  8. pugilist64

    pugilist64 Guest

    Didn`t the Holy Warrior use the same tactics against Valuev??? You saying Holyfield was scared?? :lol:
     
    pugilist64, Nov 10, 2009
    pugilist64, Nov 10, 2009
    #23
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    Ruslan Chagaev is shorter than Haye. In his own winning bid against Valuev, he was outweighed by the exact same amount (well, within eight pounds). He stood there and traded. He won more rounds, more convincingly.

    I'm not arguing that the wrong guy won, or that Haye didn't utilize an intelligent and effective strategy.

    I'm just saying. Criticisms of Haye's heart and courage are not rendered invalid by the physical proportions of the combatants, when there is precedent of someone facing virtually identical challenges of physical proportion fighting a braver, better fight. :deal
     
    IntentionalButt, Nov 10, 2009
    IntentionalButt, Nov 10, 2009
    #24
  10. sinner78

    sinner78 Active Member Full Member

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    lmao ,nice comeback line to the pathetic "go and watch MMA" cliche line.
     
    sinner78, Nov 10, 2009
    sinner78, Nov 10, 2009
    #25
  11. platnumpapi

    platnumpapi Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    haye won the fight fair and square, i wish he would throw more combinations but he did not want to risk it against the giant.he want fight the klit bros like that, its was good to get the giant out of the way, im sick of him.

    my fav heavys are eddie chambers and david haye and james toney and vitali.
     
    platnumpapi, Nov 10, 2009
    platnumpapi, Nov 10, 2009
    #26
  12. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Clearer? Debatable. I think Holyfield probably edged the fight; I thought Haye was a clear winner by at least 3 rounds.

    You seem to have forgotten that boxing on the outside & using lateral movement is an art of boxing.

    So you prefer to watch punch-bags aswell, right? I think the Trailer Park Series may be your thing. How did you score Dirrell-Froch fight out of interest?

    And are you now suggesting that Haye is making up the broken hand? Did you not see it wrapped up after the fight? Have you not seen the fact that it's swollen to about twice the size of his left hand?
     
    TommyV, Nov 10, 2009
    TommyV, Nov 10, 2009
    #27
  13. Scar

    Scar VIP Member

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    Anyone that says he's scared is an idiot. The man wasn't scared to go all the way to Germany where Valuev has been getting clear gift decisions to fight for the title yet he's scared when the bell rings?

    Not only did he travel for Valuev but he also did so for Mormeck who also got a gift decision in a circus of a fight against Bell in the rematch. Valuev was also literally TRIPLE his size and the biggest heavyweight champion in history.

    If he's scared of fighting he wouldn't be a professional boxer.
     
    Scar, Nov 10, 2009
    Scar, Nov 10, 2009
    #28
  14. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Similar to the Holyfield arguement. Both arguable have a better chin than Haye and more 'rounded' upper body movement and defensive guards.

    The questioning of his heart is invalid, completely. If you have a gameplan that utilizes your chances of winning a fight, you stick to it.

    Haye wasn't going to jeopardise the chances of achieving his life-long goal & dream by trading with Valuev just to make the fight more entertaining for people who don't appreciate the aesthetics of boxing, or to prove his 'heart'.
     
    TommyV, Nov 10, 2009
    TommyV, Nov 10, 2009
    #29
  15. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    To me when i watch Morales vs Pac, that is a brutal fight, but they are showing leagues of skill in what they are doing, that whole fight is a true masterpiece m'man..... or Mab vs Morales, Marquez vs Vasquez, MAB vs JMM,

    These are all displays of great boxing, as a fight AND an art IMO.

    Nobody credable is asking for a skilless brawl (and the fighter wouldnt win doing that anyways, even a crude slugger like Mayorga at his best was more skilled and talented then a simple brawler)

    but there are extremes, and to me personally, the constant retreating, pot shot counter punching, defence constantly first is just as far away from what boxing should be as the ricardo mayorga face first attacks (that are often very effective as well)

    but they are both boxing.... just different extremes, and if both used effectevely, are both 'right' for that individual fighter.

    Haye did what he felt he had to do to win the fight, fine.... but just like he himself has been so vocal about heavyweights being 'boring', he will be judged for his performences, and its not because its a bunch of mmgay fans are seeking a skilless face first brawl, that is simply a cop out by people who cant think of anything better to say but want to try and get some sort of 'hit' on people who actually want to see a fight.

    again, i have no real problem with what haye did, it was against a huge guy.... he felt he needed that strategy, cool.

    But what he did was not 'boxing at its purest' or anything like that eather, imo. And people craving to see more of a fight shouldnt be insulted as if they just dont appreciate boxing at its finest, which is absurd. Like i said, boxing at its finest has many forms.... a prime JCC working his way in, with subtle defence like picking off shots, feints, ect, all the while working the head and body from different distances, is just as much boxing at its best as anything imo that mayweather or haye has produced, just different.

    anyways, thats just my .02....
     
    kirk, Nov 10, 2009
    kirk, Nov 10, 2009
    #30
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