Joe Frazier vs Harry Wills/Sam Langford/Jack Johson

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Russell, Nov 13, 2009.


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  1. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    1. So if you agree hes smaller and weaker 30lbs lighter, he is also smaller and lighter around 30lbs lighter than Frazier?

    2. I don't think Frazier is a world away from Foreman, he just couldnt land on Foreman. Hes certainly above McVey for me with the brutal damage he caused opponents, but either way he is clearly offensively superior in being faster/stronger/more relentless. Frazier said he based himself on Henry Armstrong and it shows

    3. I see it as a less competitive/advanced era as a whole
     
    PowerPuncher, Nov 14, 2009
    PowerPuncher, Nov 14, 2009
    #46
  2. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    I know enough about the era to know that boxing techniques have advanced something that gives you nightmares when you sleep
     
    PowerPuncher, Nov 14, 2009
    PowerPuncher, Nov 14, 2009
    #47
  3. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    PowerPuncher, Nov 14, 2009
    PowerPuncher, Nov 14, 2009
    #48
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm just going to assume that you are being deliberately difficult rather than that you actually believe this crap.

    Let's hear about the destructive displays of cuncussive punching that Frazier displayed in proving himself in Foreman's league as a one punch hitter.

    I would have no disagreement with the view that Frazier is a better composite puncher, but that wasn't your original point, your original point seemed to be that McVey was not a puncher.

    What does this have to do with the aforementioned fighters and their status as top fighters? You're obviously struggling with this era, why complicate things further by trying to fathom where they would fit in a seventies top fifteen or twenty? I asked you to tell me why those men aren't to be rated as top men as opposed to "garbage men types", as you claimed. We both know you can't do it because it just isn't true.
     
    McGrain, Nov 14, 2009
    McGrain, Nov 14, 2009
    #49
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Based upon what?! Shavers, Liston, Foreman, these men have been overhauled by the advancing generations? You really believe that? Do you consider Foreman a puncher in the ninties, or not?

    And I suppose that Frazier doesn't hit as hard as any of the top HW's today, given that we've had a couple of generations pass since then?
     
    McGrain, Nov 14, 2009
    McGrain, Nov 14, 2009
    #50
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    janitor, Nov 14, 2009
    janitor, Nov 14, 2009
    #51
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    When I read original accounts of Jeffries percieved standing, I was absolutley stunned by the regard in he was held in. I'd say he was seen as being better than Sullivan, which really surprised me.

    There's no question that he enjoyed a better reputation than Wills.

    On a side note, I don't think Jeffries can legitimately be ranked higher than Wills based upon their respective bodies of work, but that doesn't change the way the men who were born and breathing when the two men were in their respective primes.
     
    McGrain, Nov 14, 2009
    McGrain, Nov 14, 2009
    #52
  8. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, but in 1970 Hollywood had to be somewhat nice to J.J. since a publuc outburst from the "Black" community would've screamed bloody murder, and perhaps another friggin' riot would've occured in the downtown area of several cities...... I know California doesn't want another "Watts" riot like they had in '65 or the type of **** that happened with Rodney King and O.J. Simpson in the early 90s........
    :admin
    But aside all that crap from the local slums and ghetto's, a new Jack Johnson movie that is well written needs to get filmed....... I'm all for it myself..........
    :deal:thumbsup

    MR.BILL
     
    MRBILL, Nov 14, 2009
    MRBILL, Nov 14, 2009
    #53
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I would prefer a Sam Langford or Harry Greb movie... but I'm sure only the dozen or so of us would show up to the box office.
     
    Seamus, Nov 14, 2009
    Seamus, Nov 14, 2009
    #54
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Get the right star and folk will show up for just about anything.

    The problem with a Greb movie is that nobody would believe that ****. Only a dozen or so of us would know it was for real.
     
    McGrain, Nov 14, 2009
    McGrain, Nov 14, 2009
    #55
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I have a few ideas for how I would go about it if I were a film director.

    It would be harrowing.

    I would portray Johnson as a flawed character but still make the audience identify with him and empathise with him.
     
    janitor, Nov 14, 2009
    janitor, Nov 14, 2009
    #56
  12. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Seamus, a movie about Harry Greb would be nice too, but it would have to be done / produced by HBO or Showtime as a cable movie........... A 'Greb' story would fail on the mainstream circuit............. Still, it would be kool to do that story, as well..........

    MR.BILL
     
    MRBILL, Nov 14, 2009
    MRBILL, Nov 14, 2009
    #57
  13. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hell, they did do that in the "Great White Hope" from '70........... Sure, we know some of the tale was bull**** and fictional in the movie, and the names were changed for copyright reasons, but we all knew WTF was going on............ Provided if you are / were a follower of Jack Johnson....... That is why I can still sit through that film with James Earl Jones.......
    :yep

    MR.BILL
     
    MRBILL, Nov 14, 2009
    MRBILL, Nov 14, 2009
    #58
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think Ragin Bull showed that you can make a sucesfull film about any great boxer if it is well made.

    I mean if you proposed Raging Bull as a concept you would be a bit skeptical about it working.
     
    janitor, Nov 14, 2009
    janitor, Nov 14, 2009
    #59
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    But how accurate a portray al is it of Johnson as a man?

    I think he was a lot more complex than the film gives credit for.

    I also think that the era he lived in was a lot darker.
     
    janitor, Nov 14, 2009
    janitor, Nov 14, 2009
    #60
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