Pound-for-Pound, Manny Pacquiao is the greatest fighter since Pernell Whitaker.

Green as hell huh ..Roy's record at the time was 22-0 BHops 21-1 something around that after that both men went on a winning streaks that lasted over 10 +yrs ..


If anything both men were about the same level but Jones had the better ametuer record ! That win is as good as any of Mannys wins considering all men Barrera Morales and Hopkins are all HOF 's .

.So resume has to go to Manny but P4P wise based on attributes the edge goes To Jones in his prime no one even came close to schooling him ! And his win over Toney is as good as Manny's wins over Morales and Barrera but the Cotto win edges his resume over Jones .Manny had the luxry of much deeper divisons but Jones talenst its what puts him head and shoulders above most fighters that are placed on that list !

If it were based on resume alone I would agree it would be Manny but since thats not the only criteria Jones beats him by a country mile !!!!

 

Some of what you've said here is true, but I must raise 2 points:-

1) You list the "names" of Toney and Hopkins but fail to take into account the circumstances. DLH has 2 wins over Chavez and one over Pea, it doesn't make him better than RJJ.

2) Beating Ruiz is nowhere near as good as beating Cotto. Ruiz was a JOKE. It's amazing how RJJ gets so much credit for this whilst Toney receives much less for beating Holy just because Ruiz had a title.

 

Lets finally put this discussion to bed.

Pacquiao in is prime lost to faded Morales. Roy JOnes never lost to a faded anyone in his prime. He didnt even have a close fight, atleast not one that lasted 12 rounds lol

 

Pac and Roy are basically even. I have them both right around 23-28 p4p all time. Hopkins and Floyd are around 35-40.

All 4 are fairly close but Pac and Roy are the greatest when you factor everything(resmue, how they look on film) in.

 

This is a pretty balanced post and if I'm honest there isn't a great deal between RJJ and Pac at the moment. Pac has the superior resume where RJJ looked better as you have pointed out.

I have Pac higher but can def see the converse argument.

 

you forgot one dimensional, one eyed pac ... now that helps you out !

 

Beating Ruiz is a joke ?? Really so coming from 175 to face a natural heavy is a joke ?? I think that statement is a joke !!And what circumstances surrounded the Jones wins over Toney and Hopkins and please don't use weight and green please

 

Leonard lost to Duran in his prime, is RJJ better than Leonard??

 

Toney considered the best or one of the best fighters in the world. And he was th favorite in the fight. Hopkins could have been green, but come on, he dominated everyone after the Jones fight and its not like Jones was a veteran himself. and Jones beat him with one hand.

And I dont rate his win over Ruiz that highly. But the fact he scaled to heavyweight from middleweight which is 50 more pounds then it takes to get from Bantam to welter says more then what Pacs done.

I believe its harder to scale weight at higher weight classes, you are facing men all the time.

 

Duran wasnt faded like Morales was.

 

Read it again you idiot..I said Ruiz is a joke, not the win!!!!

Admit it, you feel a bit stupid now???:good:good:good

 

Pacman is the best fighter since Sugar Ray Leonard.

 

The Toney win I don't take too much away from, but Hopkins wasn't an amazing fighter at the time Jones beat him for me. If he'd have lost to a nobody, we'd all be sittinng saying he wasn't a great fighter at that time. Their respective pro records might have been similar, but Jones had a far more extensive amatuer record.

The Ruiz win is good, but I can't see it as anywhere near as good a victory as Pac over Cotto.

You're listing in actual pounds...but if you look at pounds in percentage to weight, Pac weighed 40% more for the Cotto fight than he did when he won his first title.

Again, I don't see much between these 2.

 

Morales was an ATG champion who was KO'd by Pac twice after he lost. It says a lot about a fighter when they can avenge a loss. Especially against an ATG. Sure Morales was past his peak but Pac beat whatever was left of Morales basically into retirement.

He destroyed Barrera when MAB was in his prime. That was as big or bigger than the Toney win.

His fights with Marquez were very close. I thought he won the first fight and lost the 2nd. No shame in that considering JMM is a 3 division champion and one of the best fighters in the world.

He sent DLH into retirement with another beatdown sure Oscar was past his prime but everyone, including myself thought Oscar was gonna KO the midget.

4 ATG wins>2 ATG wins plus Cotto, Hatton, Saskul, Ledwaba, and Larios are better wins than Tarver, Woods, Ruiz, Gonzalez, and Griffin.

Roy looked better on film and Pac clearly has the better resmue. It is a toss up at this point but if Pac beats Mayweather he is the greatest fighter over the last 30 years hands down.

 

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184375

17-3. Do you feel stupid now?