Lets compare Pretty Boy to Pacman in an ATG sense

I'm a Mayweather fan but I have to admit Pacquaio has fought the greater fighters overal, however Floyd was more dominant overall and unbeaten. Floyd is a little bigger, Pacquaio is a weight drainer while Floyd is a fight at the weight on fight night type, so the size difference is exagerated.

I clearly see Mayweather as the better more complete boxer, Pacquaio has achieved more though. Floyds wins over bigger men and very good but not great fighters get underrated. Floyd also didnt have a MAB/Morales/Marquez in his fight class, he was unlucky Tyszu retired/got beat before they got to fight. He tried to make fights with Hamed/Mosley at different times and Cotto/Margarito were Arrum fighters making fights hard to make if he didnt want to be in a locked in contract.

There is also hypocrazy:

1. Mayweather fights Judah coming off a loss it gets ****, Pacquaio beats Morales/Cotto coming off a loss hes a legend
2. People have put Pacquaio at the top of their P4P list after he beat 2 men coming off losses to Mayweather.
3. Mayweather has close and somewhat unimpressive wins over the bigger Castillo and gets criticised, Pacquaio gets credit for arguably losing twice to Marquez
4. Pacquaio gets credit for being more dominant against 2 of Mayweathers opponents but Mayweather doesnt get credit for dominating the man who arguably beat Pacquaio. All those fighters were at less preferable weights and more faded
5. Pacquaio's opponents in their prime were Barrera 1, Marquez, Lebwada - Floyds were Corrales, Castillo, Hatton, Judah (imo).

Lets hope they fight to settle the dispute in the ring

 

Was Cotto coming off a loss? :huh I thought he dominated and KO'd Jennings for the WBO title, then outpointed Joshua Clottey.

And do people not rate the Judah win that highly because he was coming off a loss? :huh I think it was because Judah was never as good as Morales or Cotto to start with, and has lost every big fight he has ever had, unlike Morales and Cotto.

Pacquiao was at the top of the p4p rankings for beating Oscar & Hatton? :huh I think it was immediately after Floyd retired, then solidified after he beat Marquez.

Mayweather gets criticized for two unimpressive displays vs JLC, but Pac gets credit for losing twice to Marquez? :huh You must visit a different ESB from me if you think Pac gets full credit for the Marquez performances. For what it's worth, Marquez was definitely a better fighter than Castillo.

Pac gets credit for dominating 2 of Mayweather's opponents but Mayweather doesn't get credit for dominating Marquez? :huh Surely you see the difference here? Mayweather v Marquez was a mismatch because of size, Marquez jumped 2 divisions, far beyond the highest he should ever have gone (135) and gave away considerable weight on the night. The Marquez that Floyd fought was not even a shadow of the man Pac fought. You could say the same about the Oscar that Pac fought, but again you must be visiting a different ESB from me if you see Pac getting showered with credit for that win. Your argument falls down when it comes to Hatton. Unlike Mayweather-Marquez and Pac-Oscar, there were no mitigating circumstances there. Hatton was undefeated at his best weight, was coming off a dominant win over the consensus number 2 in his division, and is a naturally bigger/heavier man than Pac, and he got annihilated. By any/all standards, that was a fantastic win. Mayweather-Marquez can't even be compared by any right-minded boxing fan.

And your list of prime opponents? :huh Too subjective and skewed to really go into. The fact, which I think you agree with yourself, is that Pac has fought and beat better opponents on the whole. :good

 

Sometimes the issue isn't whether you win or loss, but how you fight that determines your legacy. Pacquaio's thought of by the fans as a much more exciting fighter because well he fights. Floyd boxes beautifully and wins nicely for those who appreciate boxing. But for those who think boxing and fighting are the same thing, he wins are unconvincing because there's not enought drama and fire in them. I personally can appreciate both styles but I do admit I enjoy a good technician a'la Duran displaying both great defense and offensive at the same time. Don't see Floyd do that enough. If he would have fought Cotto that would have been a good fight, as would a fight between him and SSM, who even past his prime would give him a hell of a fight.

 

1. Cotto got a gift against Clottey in many peoples eyes, and yes he got KTFO a year before, he looked poor against Clottey to be fair, landed little, was hurt and ran in the late rounds and this was against a man who was throwing about 15shots a round

2. Judah was at least undisputed WW champ, and Mayweather-Judah was a massive fight when announced that many picked Judah win, then Judah lost fighting a mando but the fight was planned before that. He didnt lose every big fight he had because he beat the undisputed WW champ. Morales and Cotto havent been undisputed anything in their careers. Maybe they were better in their prime but Cotto beat a past prime ring rusty Judah

3. Solidified after he got what some consider a gift decision against Marquez?

4. Castillo has beat better fighters than Marquez in Prime Casamayor, Prime Corrales, Prime Stevie Johnston, Bazan, and arguably Mayweather himself. Maybe Marquez was better and had better skills but he didnt beat better men

5. there is a size difference, I mentioned Marquez wasnt at his optimal weight but neither was DLH and neither Hatton who was drained and put in 15lbs of water after the fight

6. Umm no Mallignaggi who had just received 2 gift decisions back to back was not consensus no2 in the division he was always a below average fighter with no pop and no good wins, Witter/Bradley/etc were all better in the weak 140lb division. Hatton had been close to beign ko'd the fight before against Lazcano

7. Not really Mayweather has fought more men in their prime

8. Another point is Mayweathers fought more styles than Pac, whos been kept away from speedy defensive mover types for the main part

9. DUCKING - we all hear about who Mayweathers ducked. But Roach kept Pacquaio safely away from Joan Guzman from 122-130lbs, imo Guzman was his biggest challenge in those weight classes. We didnt see Pacquaio fight prime 130lbers like Guzman, Soto, Barrios, Valero. Didnt see him take any of the top5 LWs. Not saying he would have lost to them but they are missing names and Guzman was a massive threat

 

Power Puncher youre right about Guzman, he was a major threat, but I would like to know how you can say Pac has fought the better fighters overall? Take into consideration the weight and career status of these great fighters he faced as well.

 

A close fight is hardly a gift decision. :-(

You also neglected to mention that Cotto suffered a horrific gash over his eye very early in the fight from a headbutt. It was bleeding out of control most of the fight, and obviously hindering his vision as he was bravely fighting with one hand while using his other glove to stop blood from pouring into his eye at several points during the fight. After being dropped by a jab in the first round this is when Clottey started turning it up and winning rounds. Hmmmmm....nah, you have to discredit Pacman don't let that get in the way of reality or anything.

 

I would put Manny a fair amount higher. Almost always took the biggest challenges and has a better resume beaten far more greats/hall of famers.

 

:deal

As I said, 80%+ of Classic regulars would concur.

 

If were going to put a microscope to Pacman's resume why not Floyd's?


Judah was coming off an embarressing hometown loss to a journeyman.

Speaking of journeymen...Baldomir. Yeah, he beat the faded Judah and Gatti to earn his shot.

Gatti wasn't beat on after the ultraviolent Ward trilogy?

Hatton's only fight above 145 was an ugly, ugly win over Collazo...and he quickly moved back down until the big money of the Floyd fight. Pacman at least beat him at his most comfortable weight.

Marquez had never fought above 140.

 

So your saying if he fought Mayweather at a more natural weight, he could have maybe knocked him down or fought him to a draw?

See other comments above.

The sheer number of solid opponents, and win to loss record has Mayweather ahead really. Not saying he doesnt now deserve a fight to determine the worlds P4P best, but no way is Pac on a higher level in my book especially now that the myth of him being at such a physical size disadvantage has been shattered by him totally handeling a true solid welterweight.

 

Mayweather fought him to get the title. Dont see anything wrong with that considering he held the WBC belt.

Never said there was anything wrong with it. Your answering a question I didn't ask.

Whats more impressive beating ODLH at his most comfortable weight or Ricky Hatton at his?

Irrevelant question that is subject to debate with numerous more variables to consider beyond weight. Presonally, I would rank the Cotto win over either.


So your saying if he fought Mayweather at a more natural weight, he could have maybe knocked him down or fought him to a draw?

lol, your being preposterous. You did not consider such details when you dragged down Pacman's resume. Do you believe ODLH would have fought Pacman to a SD had he not been forced to kill himself to make weight? Don't answer, that is a rhetorical question.

I'm not making an argument either way, just pointing out your inconsistenices....which your post further highlighted.

 

Mainly because Pacquaio has Prime Barrera (well Im not sure he was at his best thb but near prime), Mayweather doesnt really have an equivilent who was as great in their prime.

 

You have to walk the walk in this game, and for that reason, Mayweather couldn't hold Manny's jockstrap in a P4P sense. Head to head? I expect a thorough spanking to be imposed upon Manny, but I've been wrong before.

 

Bottom line Clottey beat Cotto on a fair scorecard, it was close but clear. You dont win fights by missing punches and running. And the 116-111 card was miles off

Funny how you use a flash KD as your best case for Cotto winning that fight. Cotto was getting outboxed before and after the cut

Great win for Pacquaio but COtto gets overrated

 

PP, you're a good poster. I particularly enjoy your opinions on Marco, but you're not really suggesting Mayweather can conceivably be rated higher P4P than Pacquiao at this point?