why do people put duran ahead of pac on atg list???

Well for one thing Duran did not demand ridiculous catch weight fights trying to weight drain the opponent.

 

Maybe because Duran could barely make WW himself. He was over the ww limit the last three fights BEFORE he fought SRL.

 

obviously smarter then you, and you can only get mad at yourself because you made that dumbass statement and then after proving youre a jackass, you resorted to name calling. why dont you make a thread to see how many people agree with you.

 

why is it people are so enamored with the past.

the quartet of srl, hagler, hearns and duran for me is equalled by the quartet

mab, pac, em and jmm.

just because both quartets did not fight in the same division/divisions does not mean one is way better than the other.

dude, lets face it. fighters like em, pac, mab and jmm are so rare to come by just like hagler, hearns, srl and duran.

 

Roberto Duran:born 1951,debut weight 119,peak weight 135(around 1978),reach 66 inches,height 5'7".
Tommy Hearns:born 1958,debut weight 147,peak weight 154(around 1982),reach 78 inches,height 6'1".
Ray Leonard:born 1956,debut weight 141 1/4,peak weight 147(around 1981),reach 74 inches,height 5'10".
Wilfred Benitez,born 1958,debut weight unknown,but probably around 140,because that's around where he won his 1st title against Cervantes at 17(around 1981),peak weight 147,reach 70 inches,height 5'10".
Marvin Hagler:born 1954,debut weight 160,peak weight 160(Peak time harder to decide due to his best wins before he won the title),reach 75 inches,height 5'9".
In all honesty and logic,does anyone and everyone detect a pattern here?By the time Duran fought Leonard,he was 30 and had 71 fights against top class competition.He was smaller,slower(except for Hagler in this case) and more past it than ALL of them.Every one of them had EVERY physical advantage.Just read.Please do not give out about Duran being 1-5 against the other members of the Fab 4 (+1) ever again.Sizewise and career wise,a far more valid comparison about careers would be greater if everyone compared Duran to Alexis Arguello,who were closer in size and age than Duran and anyone in the Fab 4(+1).

 

I love Duran but he is slightly overrated

If Pac or Floyd lost to Mosley, Williams and Hopkins..They would never have been forgiven and possibly would be out of any ATG lists. Meanwhile is some way, Duran was elevated even more (He got credit for loses)

Duran most forget got dominated by Hearns and Benitez..I dont care who fights Floyd or PAC they aint losing like that.

Ive been watching boxing for a while, seen the De Jesus (Genaro Hernandez level) loss for Duran and his triumph over sacrificial lamb Davey Moore. Ive often wondered why hes so high up there (I mean top 5!!) for a close SRL win.

As for dominating the LW argument, the best was De Jesus and Buchanan..(Castillo and Corrales were better)

Problem is most people are so Nostalgic, especially with Boxing..

 

clinton,

that argument may be true against a hearns who was 6'1.

but when duran fought srl the first time, duran was 30. in the prime of his life and a full welter much like cotto who at 27 cannot go back to jww.

cotto and duran are practically the same in height, weight and reach.

while srl was 24 at that time, still a little raw although a champion still based on his skills.

hagler, while physically ripped did not appear to overpowering or overwhelming against duran.

in the duran srl fight, you would actually see that duran despite being the older man was beating srl both inside and out with more effective combo's.

it was discussed before that it was wrong for srl to fight the duran fight and rightly so, in the rematches srl chose to fight the srl fight to victory.

but to say that srl vs duran was a huge physical mismatch does not really speak the truth.

 

Yeah I confused.

Apart from his great reign at lightweight, Duran was the Leonard and Barkley notable wins.

I still think Duran is above Pacquiao. That would change if Pacman beats Mayweather.

 

The FAB four where PAC's era
PAC, MORALES, MAB and JMM

The FAB four of DURAN's era

DURAN, SRL,HEARNS, HARGLER

Duran vs SRL
1 WIN 1 loss

DURAN vs HEARNS
Duran LOST on a DEVASATATING, HUMILIATING KO

0 WIN 1 LOSS

DURAN VS HAGLER

0 WIN 1 LOSS

PAC last 12 FIGHTS

11-1

DURANS last 12 FIGHTS
7 wins 5 losses

OTHER PAC highlights:

*PAC is the ONLY second boxer in history to fight 3 different weight classes in the same year. All of them he came out victorious

*PAC is the only boxer to win 7 weight level catogies

*DURAN WON ONE 1 FIGHT and LOST all his fights with the FAB FOUR

for PAC it is the other way around!

*PAC WON all his FIGHTS except for ONE loss to Morales and a lucky draw with JMM.

I REST MY CASE

 

No.

In my opinion, Pac is greater than Hagler and Hearns. However, MAB and EM are not so close to that level. JMM also isn't.

This is why Pac needs a win over Mayweather (or Mosley). That way he'll rank above Leonard, Duran, etc.

 

Maybe as a fan of Hearns and seeing how Tommy beat Duran fairly and Duran made up that excuse, it made me more aware how these excuses diminish a great win. Tommy beat guys like that before. That was not a fluke. Tommy knocked out Duran with his big right hand like he knocked out Cuevas and Shuler with and rocked Leonard and Hagler with. Surprisingly he never hurt Benitez with it. Which does show Wilfred's great defense. Fact is Duran always made excuses and it was against the best fighters he ever fought. Had he beaten Hearns and Benitez and lost to Moore I would have bought the excuse more. Not training for a lesser fighter makes more sense. I just think the excuses are opportunities to save face when he could't deal with speed.
It is not hate. It is more frustration at why Duran gets considerations. The Leonard fight is seen as what puts him on top of the ATG list and his lightweight reign of coarse, yet he lost the rematch and rubber match to Ray. If he is put so high because of that win with Ray, where must Leonard be? number one? Duran didn't stop him and it was not a wide decision win for Duran, it was very close. And Ray was inexperienced, and then Ray comes back and wins. That is not that I dislike Duran, I do not like the way he is given ranking for not winning against the legends. There has to be a standard. Ali beat Frazier,Liston,Patterson (i know he older) Foster(weight), Norton,Foreman, Shavers etc. out of those fighters Frazier,Liston,Patterson and Foreman are ATG. 4. Duran beat one legit ATG.
I am not sure outside of 20 is so bad. I am going with his wins over Hall of Fame fighters. If there is other criteria people focus on then yeah he deserves to be in there higher. He had a long career. Beat up contenders, but my criteria was always what makes a fighter ATG is beating fellow ATGs.

 

best to remember, the atg list is all hypothetical, and subjective. could pac beat henry armstrong or sam langford? never mind duran (atleast he was fighting since my birth) we have to look at some guys we haven't seen against opponents we haven't heard of. when some of the oldtime boxing writers die off, and some new modern guys make the list, it will change. most of this is a debate of modern training techniques vs volume of ring expierience. pac ain't fighting a hundred times. but i think he is better conditioned then the oldtimers.

 

He never fought Alexis, and to be honest he would have had a chance, but at the same time Alexis had a good right hand and Duran would have been hit by it. You never know. Alexis might have won. He was better than Dejesus and Buchanan, and thet thing which worked against that fight happening was Alexis was always a little lighter in weight than Duran in timing.

 

dude,

your argument works both ways. you insist that pac is greater than hagler and hearns yet EM has a win over pac. Mab won a trilogy over EM.

I am a huge EM fan and for me, EM is one of the best boxers/brawlers to have come our of mexico.

 

JMM also hasn't lost to Pac.