why do people put duran ahead of pac on atg list???

Sorry about the Douglas mistake. I confused Douglas fighting Tyson for Morrison fight Rudduck , and I think Savarese beat Douglas who fought Tyson also. Two Tyson opponents. Doesn't matter if Duran went 15 with Hagler, Vito Antuofermo went 15 with Hagler and got a draw and no one is going to say that is much credit. He fought well ,but how do you rank a guy high for just going 15? He still lost. Then he lost to Hearns 7 months later in what should have been a unification fight. Hagler fought a very docile fight at the beginning with Duran.

 

I agree

 

To this day...some fans are still in denial :rofl

and some fans prefer fighting the loser coz the loser is a black boxer instead of fighting the winner who happens to be non-black

 

Duran at 129 ko'd an excellent (fellow Panamanian)Ernesto Marcel,who beat Arguello.At 135,Duran ko'd tough Dominican Vilomar Fernandez,who also beat Arguello.I love,love Arguello.He is one of my favorite fighters ever.BUT NO ****ING WAY on God's green earth does any version of Arguello beat Leonard at 147.You know it,I know it and,everyone on ESB knows it.Duran was better than Arguello,and the comparison with Arguello and Duran rather than Duran and the Fab 4 due to size and time is more valid.And no,nothing in Alexis' resume indicates that he was better than DeJesus at 135(Jim Watt,maybe?NO!).Come to think of it,Alexis never beat anyone at lightweight better than Ismael Laguna whom Buchanen beat twice.Even forget about Ray Lampkin.

 

hagler improved after the fight, you have to remember that was his first title defense and most thought hagler had won the fight. hagler left no doubt who was better in the rematch. when duran fought hagler, he was at his peak and gave hagler fits. he thought duran as going come at him and brawl but duran boxed and it through off hagler. you have to acknowledge the versatility that duran showed in that fight. and yeah hearns destroyed duran, but you wouldnt think he woudl do the same to pac. there cna be no strong argument made for pac having a better resume then duran, which is what this all about, and to be honest is getting boring discussing it.

 

So,let me get this straight.Height 5'7" to 5'10" is not a big advantage.66" reach to 74" reach is not a big advantage.I suppose the numbers don't indicate a big physical mismatch,eh?You're ****ing joking,right?The beyond obvious Leonard foot and hand speed advantage do not exist,either,I suppose?The fact that Duran had had 70+ plus fights by the time he fought Leonard could never indicate that Duran may have been a bit past it despite the fact that NONE of the Fab 4(+1) never had as many fights throughout their careers even though all of them fought after 30,right?Not very logical,are you?Yes,the physical advantages are obvious,and yes,that's the truth.Ignore the facts and the math if you want,but,you're wrong.And,how the hell does Cotto come into the mix when referring to Duran/Cotto size when Cotto never fought anyone like Leonard,Hearns or Hagler and was just stopped by former flyweight Pac-Cotto is my fav present and I like and respect Pac,too.And Leonard was a little RAW?HE HAD ALREADY BEATEN BENITEZ.Just admit you're wrong and Duran was an ATG at lightweight,will you?You have no logic in this argument.

 

CO-sIGN :good

 

This is the 2nd time in the last few days,that i have heard you make statements that are false, MORRISON never fought Douglas. Also Duran was not on the verge of being kod by Hagler. I dont understand how your double standards. How can you knock Duran for losing to naturally bigger opponents,but yet you make the excuse for Tommy Hearns:huh? Hearns was actually 5 inches taller than Hagler. Duran was 3 inches shorter than Leonard and also skipped jw to beat Leonard. Hearns fought at Jm so he should have been acclimated to the weight much easier. Anyways back to the thread Duran is easily a top 5 ATG and his best days were at lightweight and I agree that his wins in the highter weight classes were what sealed the deal for his Elite atg resume. I think Manny is also great and i put him in my top 15Atg,If he can get wins over Shane and Mayweather he might get the nod but until then Duran has the edge here.

 

Pac loses to SRL.
Pac loses to Hearns.
Duran brutally KOs Pac.

Probably, but all did not and will never happen. So nobody will ever know. Even professional analysts get their analysis wrong, so funny how people think they sure know things, I am not saying Pac beats any of them, but I just can not take anybody seriously either to just blurt out that Pac gets murdered by those three. atsch

 

2 times in the last few days mistakes? What are you talking about. The only mistake I made was confusion about Douglas fighting Morrison. It was Rudduck who fought Morrison. But I made no other false statements on here, no more anyone else would. And yes I think Hagler had Duran tired and if there was a round or two more he would have stopped him. Go look at the fight then, don't take my word on it. I remember it like it was yesterday, and I have not seen that fight in years. Marvin was working him over against the ropes and when the bell rang to end the fight Duran all of sudden acts machismo like he was fresh in the corner. Marvin sees this and is walking away waving his hand at Duran like yeah right, knowing Duran was doing this for show.
And talk about being wrong about a fact. Tommy was 5 inches taller than Hagler? Was Tommy 6-2 3/4-6-3?? Since Marvin is 5-9 3/4. And Marvin's reach is 75 inches which is great for a man who is really 5-10. Tommy was 3 1/2 inches taller than Marvin. Tommy is 6-1 1/2, yet his reach is only 3 inches more. Answer me when I have I been wrong facts? Go look over my posts and tell me.. Just the Douglas fact?

 

Marcel fought Duran earlier in his career, he fought Arguello after many more title fights. Different factors. Vilamar beat Arguello in a tuneup fight and Duran's was for the title. Different factors again, and Arguello was still defending his superfeatherweight title then. Duran was a legit lightweight and so was Fernandez. Look Vilomar was not a great fighter. Didn't he retire with like 12 losses? He had 5 or so losses when he fought Duran. I never said Arguello could beat Leonard. No way could he. I said Duran vs. Arguello I would probably pick Duran, but Alexis had a nice right hand. Duran was always a little bigger than Alexis in timing. Go look at Duran's lightweight competition. I did one time and look at the records of the guys he fought. Only one I think was undefeated when he fought them. They are not stellar records or great fighters at all who he fought at lightweight, but he was dominant and he hit hard. He just did not have that Pernell Whitaker quality guy at lightweight then. Or a Floyd.

 

Yeah Hagler did improve and he got better with Vito. In a way like Leonard with Duran, but Leonard even improved more than Marvin with the Duran fight. Ray was not yet a complete fighter when he fought Duran, and Marvin should have been when he fought Vito. Even with Benitez, he beat him with speed on the inside, but he took a lot of punishment. I don't think losing to Hagler was a great thing really. Going 15 round kept his name out there, but he didn't win. Versatility? It just showed Duran was quick enough to get off some right hands and swelled Marvin eye a little, but the fight was not exciting, and at the end Marvin got a little more aggressive and closed it strong. It was not a win, and in this same time period he lost to Benitez easily and Hearns very easily. Speed of opponents was Duran's weakness. If a guy used speed Duran had problems. Hagler did not use his speed and he let Duran counter. It was like a sparring session like Marvin said later, but as he said also "I still won and I felt it was an easy fight".

 

Well pretty much....what do you think Sugar Ray Leonard would do to Pacquiao? It would be a pitiful thing.....:bbb

 

I could have sworn that you made a post the other day saying that Duran only beat 3 HOF fighters in his career,When he actually beat 5. If im wrong my bad(but i think it was you). Also I believe that Hagler was listed at 5-91/2,and I think that was a stretch Id say 5-9 and Hearns has been listed at anywhere from 6-1 to 6-2,anyways whatever the differance was I think you get my drift. He was the much taller man,where as Duran was always the shorter and smaller man in his fights against the Fab 4. You still never commented on the double standard as to why you put Hearns above Hagler because he was the smaller man,but yet you knock Duran for not beating some ofthese naturally bigger men? Why is the excuse made for Tommy but not for Duran who fought his whole prime at lightweight?

 

If Leonard was not a complete fighter when he fought Duran,how the **** did he beat Benitez,before?You're reaching for it.