Pacman vs Ray Leonard at 147

In any event, Leonard's resume at 147 is stellar. No argument to be posed about Duran being a better Welter, none at all.

 

When Cotto threw the jab, more often than not, it landed and snapped the head back of Manny Pacquiao. We can agree I went overboard with the "at will" statement, but the fact remains, for all of Manny's strengths displayed against Miguel Cotto, he seems to be troubled by jabbers. This is why I think a lot of people are going to be shocked at how easily Mayweather makes it look in beating Manny. Even if Mayweather wins, I'd still rate Manny higher in a P4P sense though.

 

Palomino is a good win for Duran though.
I mean, wasn't the Benitez-Palomino fight pretty close ? And Duran fought him just after that.
Actually the Palomino win happened before Leonard beat Benitez. I think Duran had earned his shot as much as Leonard had.

The Hearns win does separate Leonard from Duran at WW though.

I think both of their resumes at WW are very good but lacking in quantity. Short reigns, few or no defenses. Quick to move up or retire.

 

In the sense that he was outstanding or a star, yes, his career was steller. So were the careers of Benitez, Duran, Palomino, Hearns, and Cuevas.

But there is no question Duran was the better welterweight. All one has to do to see the obviousness of this case is to watch the tape of the Montreal fight. Leonard has neither the strength nor the talent to deal with Duran.

 

Rooster, is that you?

 

Bang on the money. :good

 

Leonard's best wins at WW.

Benitez, TKO15.
Duran, TKO8
Hearns TKO14.

Duran's best wins at WW.

Palamino W10
Leonard W15.

Duran has the single best win at the weight when he beat Leonard in Montreal. Taking into account he was a natural LW and up against a prime Leonard. But overall at the weight Leonard has the better balance of wins.

You'll never, I repeat never, find Duran rated above Leonard in an ATG list of WW's.

Leonard was a better WW than Duran overall.

 

You could also debate that Leonard was a better WW than Duran was a LW too. Sure, Duran has better longevity at LW than Leonard does at WW. But yet again, Leonard has the better wins, although it's arguable overall. Duran reigned longer at LW (over 7 years) while Leonard's reign was brief. IMO, if you put Benitez, Duran and Hearns up against Duran's three best wins at LW it would be tough to make a case for Duran. It must be said that Buchanan and De Jesus were good quality too. Depends what you like.

 

:deal

They're a win a piece against each other. That means Leonard earned his win just like Duran earned his win.

I'm leaving this thread now, can't be arsed with the can of worms i've just opened, it's needless. But you're right anyway.

I think MrMarvel's point is on a head to head assumption, unless i'm wrong. That is up for debate, like i said they're a win a piece on mutual merit. But your last sentence is a lock for truth.:good

 

Don't put to much stock in anything MrMarvel has to say regarding Leonard, he seems to be a RedRooster recruit. I mean, let's have complete disregard for Leonard's stoppages over prime Hearns and prime Benitez, that's his mindset...and it can't be justified, not by logic anyway.

 

If you're talking about the leonard that fought camacho then pacman wins. Other than that, forget about it.

 

The Duran that fought Palomino and Leonard was just as good as pretty much any WW you care to mention. Or at least up there. He was at least as good in those fights as any I ever saw at Lightweight.

 

Im too tired to work out if you are joking here but just in case you are not... Leonard would massacre Pacquiao & yes, Id bet my life on it without hesitation.

Watch what happens in the future Mayweather-Pacquiao bout... then try come back to me with this bull****, you wont be able to, even as a joke - if it was a joke.

 

Addie; All common sense & logic would point to Leonard hammering pacman, but after watching the fight live at ringside & 3 more times on tape i'am telling you know that Leonard would get hit plenty & often in those first 5 rounds & it's not out of this world to see Leonard hitting the deck. Duran had Leonard breakdancing in the 2nd in Montreal, Leonards defence was average at best, he was easy to hit & relied on those lightspeed blistering 5/6 combo's to keep any foe at bay.

I've bet & lost a stack betting against pacman time & time again, he has absolutly no right to even be fighting up at these weights, he really is a modern day marvel. Of coarse with Leonards size/speed you'd think he'd overwhelm a little guy like pac & he proberbly would/should if he fought a Benitez style fight but the Leonard of Montreal would have his hands full for the first 5 & it just all depends how Leonard would approach this fight tacticly, would his ego get the better of him in respect to viewing pac as an upstart challenger? If he did then he'd be in for quite a shock (Kevin Howard comes to mind) do you get my drift!

We are not talking about a fight of equals here! As in Hearns/Leonard 1, we are talking about someone that came up & challenged Leonard from the lighter ranks & who despite all common fistic logic has now dispached, Diaz/DLH/Hatton & now Cotto, Leonards defence here is the key + his ego in maybe wanting to dish out a beating to the upstart, if so, then thats pac's best chance, if not, (Benitez stratagy)then it's 9th round TKO for Leonard, but a lot of you here are missing the key eliment to this match-up & it's Leonards EGO.

With regard to Leonards TKO over benitez, it was gifted & Hearns would have won over 12, ahead by a street. I'am minded to think that Pacman would have given Duran a tough fight for about 7 before his was crushed as Durans defence was far superior to Leonards, but don't go overboard here on righting off this little guy, he's shocked the world to date, i'am a huge Cotto fan but i've never seen that done to someone of Cotto's calibre.

But back to Leonard, Pac's/Roach's tactics would be to counter Leonard at mid range, Duran dominated Leonard in Montreal by drawing Leonards lead then smashing in overhand rights all night & with pac's side 2 side in/out & straight down the pipe deliveries from the counter to attack, then he'd land at will, as i've said above, if Leonard adopts the Benitez fight stratagy of ultra caution punch picking (Which Mayweather will employ) then it'll be a one sided yawn & a mid/late TKO but if the ego maniac in Leonard surfaces then i'am telling yer now you'd see Leonard getting whacked & decked, so focus on what Leonard would show up for the pac fight if it was 2010 & Leonard was in Mayweathers shoes, i'am going for the EGO-MANIAC to show up who just hated anyone getting more ink than himself, think about it:smoke

 

H2H only, not taking into account resume at the weight, Duran is as good as any ww I've ever seen, including Leonard. I can say that as I haven't seen footage of Robinson fighting at welter. I am one of what I suspect would be a tiny and oppressed minority who was not impressed by anything about SRL's performance against Hearns except his power/finishing combination ability. I don't rate it as a great overall performance by any manner of means. Was the Duran of the 1st Leonard fight and the Palomino fight as good as the Leonard of the Benitez fight and the second Duran fight? My answer would be: Easily he was.