Heavyweight Tourney: Rd 3: Gene Tunney .Vs. Rocky Marciano

This can be answered and refuted but it's not worth going over if you actually believe what you state to begin with, which is a little perplexing. Even Chris agreed.

 

It's important to note that Marciano intended to hold up and punish LaStarza. And he did, broke blood vessels in his arm and he had to have reconstruction surgery. If the fight has any resemblance to that one in this matchup, I feel bad for Tunney.

 

It is also important to note that Lastarza, who came into the fight at a low weight, was winning the fight after five rounds. The tide turned when l Maricano landed several foul blows that took the steam of of LaStarza. The fouls included hitting on the break, and low blows. I have a complete summary of the fight in the archives here.

Few realize that Tunney was down less in his career than Marciano was. Its true, Tunney was never stopped, and only down once from Dempsey's best filmed combination.

 

Yes, and Tunney never faced the comp at HW nor was he half as proven against bigger, stronger, heavyweight. And specifically, big punchers. Walcott, Moore, and even an aging Louis all hit harder while Walcott was just as accurate a puncher anyway.

I have the Marciano vs LaStarza II fight. The low-blows is overstated, and had no real barring on the tide or turning of the fight. The fight was basically over once Marciano gained control. If the fight resembles this one, then Tunney has no chance to not only win a decision but not to take a serious amount of punishment.

 

Tunney had under rated power, and in fact had a good body attack. But I'm not picking Tunney on KO here, I side with him on points. His footwork, chin, stamina, and smarts greatly exceed anyone Marciano fought. Sure Walcott had fancy feet, but he also had a suspect chin, and at time fought foolishly. Tunney was no fool in the ring. He would out maneuver and out jab Marciano, owning a 10" reach advantage in the fight, and would not be caught on the ropes.

I disagree on your interpretation of the fouls in Marciano vs. LaStarza 2. The hitting on the break shots were the hardest blows Marciano landed in the fight to that point. One of them was a clean hook to the jaw on the break. The low blows also slowed LaStarza down. The cups in those days were a far cry from the foam runner of modern times. Marciano got in a low blow or two before the ref docked him a point, but the damage was clearly done on the fouls ..and there is filmed evidence shows Lastarza slowed down as shortly after Marciano landed hard foul blows.

 

Why did he have a suspect chin? Because he got KOed by Louis and Marciano? The two biggest punchers in the division history? Because he got KOed a few times as a starving man trying to feed his kid in the depression? His chin faced a lot of big strong powerful Heavyweights. Tunney, had he faced half of the men Walcott faced probably would have a few KO losses on his record too. I think Walcott's chin is grossly underrated.

While Marciano still might be one of the smartest men Tunney could've fought.

Yep, I did really hear anything about his groan after the fight... just broken blood vessels in his arms that needed surgery. That's the damage I know of after the fight. He was a wrecked fighter thanks to Marciano.

 

I'd side with the apparent minority here and pick Tunney on points. I think he could use his footspeed and angles to step around Rocky and score with enough combinations to get the decision.

 

That's kinda what I was thinking.

I don't know about that. In between the Tunney fights, Dempsey broke down and stopped a very classy boxer Sharkey in rather Marciano-ish fashion, by relentlessly bulldogging him. Earlier, he'd also worn down and stopped Bill Brennan after Brennan had foiled him early.

 

Tunney had far better power and was at least two cuts above La Starza. Please.

 

Walcott did have a suspect chin, and he was old when Marciano meet him. Tunney fought plenty of people. Dempsey hit as hard as anyone Walcott fought, and Tunney meet him twice.

I agree that Marciano fought smart and sometimes fought dirty, but he was very limited. His foot speed wasn't great, and he had the shortest reach of any heavyweight champion. He also swung and missed badly at times, and would be easy pickings in the middle of the ring for a skilled boxer mover like Tunney, who also fought smart.

The reason I brought up the LaStarza fight is because he had a similar style to Tunney. We both known Tunney was a few notches better than LaStarza. Some feel that LaStarza took the first fight f om Marciano, and if memory recalls he went low in that fight too. It seems like we are not going to agree on how successful LaStarza was vs. Marciano, the fouls that slowed LaStarza down, or the fact that Tunney style was similar to LaStarza's, except Tunney was much better.

When a fast boxer meets a pure slugger, the boxer is usually wins. This this is especially true when the boxer has a size advantage that is complemented by a top chin, top stamina, and fights smart.

 

Tunney was an exceptional fighter. His intellect, stamina, chin, speed of hand and foot were all time great, far ahead of the older versions of Walcott and Charles Marciano fought. I see him succeeding where a Charles and Walcott slmost did. However, since Tunney really had a short record as a heavyweight, the questions are legit and the fight is very interesting. Much more realistic than matching Rocky against much larger fighters from other eras ...

 

Hang on a minute, was Tunney really that much less tested at heavyeight than rocky? Two of Rockys best wins are Charles and Moore both all time great light heavys, who were successful at heavy, but then again, so was Greb, Loughran, Risko, Levinsky and Carpentier. Tommy gibbons was a world ranked heavy. His last defence against Tom Heeney was against a big 200 plus fighter. who had just beaten Sharkey and Risko and drawn with Uzcuden. Walcott may have been champion and aging but then again it is arguable that the two Dempsey wins were better tests than the aging Walcott and Louis. Neither fighter really fought big heavyweights and arguably Tunney is not that much less proven than Marciano.

 

You're talking Dempsey's opponents up by a large margin. Charles and Moore both have more than proven their worth at heavyweight, and are MUCH greater lightheavyweights than anyone LHW Tunney beat. Tunney did beat Greb, who is a great middleweight, but let's not forget that he also lost to him and that the victories coincide somewhat with the diminishing career of Greb.

Tomy Heeney a big 200 plus fighter? He was 5'9" and didn't scale over 200lbs until his 31st birthday. Aside from that, he was awfully mediocre. A draw and a loss to Uzcudun, a draw with Sharkey (who was erratic anyway), and many losses to journeymen. Let's no pretend this win means much.

The Loughran fight was very close. Some score it for him, others for Tunney. Tommy was young, only 163lbs, and had only had 16 fights, while Tunney had 43(!) and weighed 174lbs. Needless to say, this is a moral victory for Loughran. They never rematched.

Carpentier rated at HW? Why, because he got knocked out by Dempsey? He barely even fought heavyweights and never scored a win worth mentioning. He was merely built-up so Dempsey could have an easy payday.

Sorry, but if you think any of those compare to DECISIVE, knockout victories over Walcott, Charles, Moore and numerous other heavyweights, then i don't know what to say. Take off the rose tinted glasses.

I wouldn't really say Dempsey broke him down. After all, he stopped him with a single combination. As you say, Brennan had him foiled before (and Brennan isn't all that), as did Gibbons - a lightheavyweight who didn't even bulk up. Survive the early rounds vs Dempsey and you have a good chance to survive. Survive the early rounds with Marciano, and you're still in deep ****. That's my point.

 

Sharply Intellegent post....Chris you are a Badass :good

 

Lets not make the Sharkey win any thing more than what it is in regards to Dempsey.

That win is still tainted imo after these 80 or so years later.

A combo to the balls, follow up to a left to the jaw.