Heavyweight Tourney:Rd 3:Wladimir Klitschko .Vs. John L. Sullivan

I must say JT, I believe Wlad is. I do think that Vitali would beat him if they fought, I just like Wlads tight gameplans over Vitalis awkward effectiveness. Fair play to Vitali though, he is fighting regularly, as his Brother did before his recent injury.

 

You're probably right, based as much on career stage as anything really.

You get my point tho, some would definitely have Vitali there and it's unfortunate neither has nor will ever beat the other.

The fact is neither beat the best or next best Heavyweight during their entire tenure.

What an unfortunate yet incredible occurance.

 

Agreed, which is exactly why I'd like Chambers of Haye to beat one each and then fight each other (or for one of them to beat both) which is an unlikely but satisfying scenario.

 

How much do you feel not fighting each other (well 1 vs 2) hurts their legacy?

 

He did prefer the Marquess of Queensbury rules but he was also experienced fighting under the London Prize Ring rules which would likely work to his advantage in this particular match-up. I'm not sure if Wladimir would be standing up after 20 or 30 rounds, provided that Sullivan knew how to work the rules to his advantage much like Kilrain and Mitchell did against him.

Withstand the early storm and make the fight into an endurance contest. We have seen Wladimir out of it against Puritty and Brewster who basically took his best and stayed there until Wladimir had nothing left. We also know that Sullivan has had quite a few prolonged battles, with himself coming out the victor.

That'd be his best chance in my opinion.

 

Of course if they did fight they couldn't both loose.

 

Get into my thread devoted to this, your input will be appreciated.

 

In Sullivan's day John L. kills him. Today Wlad wins by boring decision.

Vitali would crush Wlad.

 

I can never understand why John L Sullivans face is not on the dollar bills.

 

While we are on tsubjet of Sullivan I found this interesting article.

It is hard to read but it describes Sullivans training regime in the run up to the Killrain fight. Sullivan trained with a 25 lb medicine ball, skipped rope and used dumbells. He also atatched a ball to a rope to use like a speed bag and hit it so hard that he broke the rope. It also details what Sullivan ate.

It also lists some tale of the tape measurments stating that Sullivan had a 42" chest and 16.5" biceps.

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A couple of interesting points about the article.

It talks about "extreme measures" that Sullivan took to get down to 202 lbs compared to which his current training regime is apparently light releif. You have to wonder what fighters like Sullivan and Jeffries did to shed fat when they had been out of the ring.

The article mentions that Sullivans calves were not particularly developed but his thighs were huge. This would be an artefact of his training.

 

the level of delusion this thread illustrate can not be overstated.

i began studying John L when I was 17 years old. I remember reading John L Sullivan's America for the first time. I was in awe of this 19th century Tyson figure.

However, I am bright enough and understand the relevance of observations made in the 1880's to those today to know that Sullivan would look a hell of a lot more like Joe Savage than Mike Tyson and last about a minute or two in the ring versus someone like Wlad.

 

atsch

Yep, your pretty bright with that Comment.

Savage knocked them all out cold in 4 rounds regularly! Although he lost the only fight i saw him in. Even allowing for the skin colour, Mike still looks more like John L. I suppose if Savage grew the right moustache he may look a little like the old John L that is on film, but i still think John L looks a lot faster than savage in the clip that we have.

Incidentally, here is an interesting comparison about Tyson. He was in his prime the best finisher and ko puncher i have ever seen. And he always finished things as quickly as possible. If we forget about the high level opponents (and the amateur career, because he had a few losses there and was young and still learning), it is safe to say that his early opponents were not as good as the local veterans and fighters John L saw. Under the rules sullivan used, Tyson would have went through 1 year, 1985 having won all his fights in the 4 rounders and looking good to become another John L. In his second fight though, in 1986 Mike Jameson would have collected the money! Something that it took about 50 times more fights for someone to do to John L. In Tysons next fight, Jesse Ferguson would have taken the money. Before long, Tillis, Green and Jose Ribalta would have taken the money. admittedly these guys are starting to raise the quality of fighter (arguably) but either way, it demonstrates that it is very unlikely, that even a prime mike Tyson would have been able to do what John L Sullivan actually did. And this is without taking account of what past prime John L Sullivan did to Jake Kilrain, as opposed to what past prime Tyson did to Kevin McBride.

No matter which way you look at it, your comment is completely ridiculous.

 

op

 

Guys who Sullivan thought were tough...

Fat ass Paddy Ryan, beer gutted...

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160 lb. John Donaldson who took him the distance...

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150 pound Charlie Mitchell who took him the distance and knocked him down...

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Guys who Wlad flattened...

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Yeah, I don't see a difference at all...