why do people put duran ahead of pac on atg list???

That might mean something if Pac had been fighting at WW for his last three or four fights THEN went on to lose against all the premier welterweights, like Duran did (minus SRL 1). Duran wasn't small, he was in shape at MW, he didn't move up in weight because he wanted to, he did it because he HAD to. Duran was tipping the scales at 140 or thereabouts by the time he was 21 yrs old and a LARGE number of his victories came against guys with records like 1-7-1. How many of those fighters do you see on Pac's record?

 

I simply can't argue with someone who can't grasp simple facts. LEON SPINKS BEAT AN ANCIENT ALI, A CORPSE IN THE RING, IT MEANT NOTHING. Leon Spinks was a NOBODY. Hence George Foreman beating him would have meant nothing!

Iran Barkley was a great fighter. Do you see the difference you ****ing infant? Do I need to break it down further? The victory for Duran was NOT great because it was against the guy who starched Hearns [even though that hilarious], it was great because Duran beat yet another great fighter who was naturally bigger than him [which is an enormous feat in boxing, as Pacquiao can attest to].

I'm sorry, but regardless of how you spin it, Hearns was far bigger than Duran. That's the way it is, end of story.

No, it wouldn't come down to Foster being better. It would come down to his physical superiority. Size is a factor in boxing, that's why they have weight divisions. Robinson was clearly a superior fighter to Joey Maxim, and yes exhaustion cost him the fight, but that's probably due to him having to work harder to overcome the size difference. You simply can't hold losses against a fighter when they moving up so far above their natural weight to fight a GREAT champion.

But who cares, I'm sick of arguing about this. You can have your opinion, the consensus disagrees with you and your constant masturbation over Thomas Hearns...

... And besides, I'm leaving for Europe for 2 months in about 8 hours... I have more important things to attend to. Have fun. :hi:

 

In which alternate universe is Iran Barkley a GREAT fighter???

 

One of the reasons is because Duran was a much more skilled fighter, has a much greater single win than Pacquiao has and accomplished more than Pacquiao has in his career, gap is closing though

 

Well Hearns is an all time great who fought as high as Lt Heavy and Hagler was the best Middleweight of all time. It would be like Manny fighting Hopkins.

 

And Floyd made a GREAT point, so what if Pac started so low when he was pro, he was that low at a time too, he was just still an amateur. All that matters is where you are at in the present. And presently Pacman looked just as big as Cotto.

 

you are getting bent out of shape in a message board about boxing, not because I cannot grasp simple facts, it is because you cannot accept certain facts about truths about wins and losses in boxing.

I love Iran Barkley. He was a warrior and put his all into boxing, but if you think he was a great fighter than I am not sure you know much about his boxing record. He lost at the time to Kalambay by decision. lost to Duran, lost to Nunn, lost to Benn in one round!!! That is a great fighter? Let's not be ridiculous. He was good and he came to fight, but one great win against an ATG who was beating him up is not going to make him ATG. Barkley lost at middleweight by decision, knockout and every other way. He was not great, and just because you like Duran as a fighter doesn't mean you can say Iran Barkley was a great fighter just to boost Duran in the rankings. Barkley wasn't great , and the win does not make Duran great. Good win though. Duran still was 1-5 (0) against the legends.

That issue about size you mention didn't seem to affect Hearns when he fought Dennis Andries and Virgil Hill, but since he was tall he was meant to beat guys 30 pounds above his first title fight weight? Nice excuse for Duran. How tall was Dwight Qawi? He was 5-6 -one inch shorter than Duran and then he fought at heavyweight later. You are overrating hieght and underrating body structure. Hearns had a smaller body structure than light heavyweights.
You make it sound like if a fighter moves up in weight if he loses than that doesn't matter since he was smaller. Well then Hearns was moving up with Hagler, so by your logic he didn't lose and you can't hold it against him. Good logic. That is selective according to who you like and who you want to be ATG. It really shouldn't matter who we like in boxing, the records speak for itself. In 20 years Duran will not be as high the ATG rankings as he is now since people will look at his record objectively and see who he beat. He will be ATG but not top 15 by that point, I do not think.The ATG list is subjective anyway. We all put our favorite fighters higher up. So what do the lists matter. It would be nice for all of us to present our ATG list and have a system or a way where they average out the lists and see where all the fighters go when all the lists are added together. That would be more accurate.

 

Why would someone post something so ignorant and hateful on a boxing message board? I come to this boxing message board to discuss a sport I love and I keep it clean and respectful and give my opinion. It is too bad if what I say makes people who hero worship Roberto Duran upset. I am just stating what I believe are the facts in my mind. Sugar Ray Leonard was not prime when Duran beat him by decision in 1980. Duran fought his fight and still couldn't knock out Leonard, and Ray even said Duran couldn't knock him out at his own game, so Ray said he knew he would beat him easily by boxing him in the rematch- and look what happened Duran quit-and he quit when Ray was starting to land to the head and body-check the fight out on youtube. Duran quits when Ray is landing, not when Ray is moving. Ray was just 1/2 a year from winning his first title. Duran fans make anyone Duran beats prime and great, and when he losses to someone there is an excuse that Duran was out of shape. Totally ridiculous and selective. Duran made excuses that he was out of shape when he fought Leonard the second time, Benitez and then Hearns. He made that same excuse for all 3 fights. Those 3 guys were the top 3 ATG fighters he fought below middleweight, and he lost to all 3 decisively, and when fighting those three greats he doesn't train? So he trained for Davey Moore but not those 3? Davey Moore was a tougher fighter than those 3? Is that why he didn't train for them? See how ridiculous the Duran excuses are. He knew they were great and knew they were tough challenges, but when he lost he couldn't accept it so he just made excuses like all other fighters make excuses for losses, but no one believes any other fighter except Duran. Duran fans overlook the facts that he lost to the better fighters from the 1980's and had a record 1-5(0) against Leonard,Hearns,Benitez,Hagler.

 

That win against Ray is overrated. I have stated it over and over. Duran did not dominate Leonard or stop him. Then Ray won the rematch easily.

 

That is why I mention the Duran ATG level. I always said he was ATG, I just never said top 10. I just wonder what criteria people use to rate him there. It is almost like Duran's aura or image gets him to top ten without the backing of who he beat really.