Fighters who are often lauded as all time greats.....

A slew of all-time greats at the very top of most credible all-time great lists would have amounted a loss or two from less accomplished fighters than a Junior Jones, who convincingly beat Orlando Canizales, and presented himself as an intimidating figure down at 122lbs, where he'd enjoy a size and reach advantage over virtually every other fighter in the division. By the same token, I do realize that the all-time greats I'm referring to fought far more frequently than fighters do today, and that then a loss or two is inevitable. Junior Jones was never a great fighter, either.

However, with that said, the two Junior Jones losses only gave Barrera a platform to really demonstrate his true greatness by rebounding in spectacular fashion. He was hit by a shot he didn't see in their first fight, and having never tasted defeat before in over 40 professional fights, to see Marco acting cautiously in the return bout is not all that surprising. Although the decision in their second fight is often debated, it's a credit to the character of Barrera that he would go on to establish himself as the greatest Featherweight of the decade, and become, like Julio Cesar Chavez before him, a three weight world champion.

Barrera has not even officially retired from the game yet. Historically, fighters are more appreciated as time passes. I don't envision Marco being forgotten any time soon.

 

Barrera #102
Michael Spinks #52
Zarate #96
Marciano #31

Zarate comparable to Barrera, but neither are comparable to Michael Spinks.

 

So I was correct, Margarito and Mosley are infinitely superior to any Welterweight that Mayweather has defeared. Oscar De La Hoya was clearly past his prime, but that fight took place above the Welterweight limit regardless. It's become fashionable to beat Judah, who was actually coming off a loss to a journeyman at the time. That is not acceptable for the supposed best fighter in the sport, and the quicker you realize that, the better you'll understand as to why Floyd has so many critics.

 

Who did Rocky Marciano beat, and what did he accomplish to justify being 71 places above Marco Antonio Barrera?

Can you post your P4P list through my PM. I'll be interested in looking at some of your choices.

 

Yes I believe those fights would have enhanced his career but not to the extent that they start detracting Mayweathers past accomplishments. Im not so sure the same 150 pound ODLH doesnt beat Margarito. I dont know if I would classify Baldomir as a journeyman either.
I understand why Floyd has a lot of critics, Im one of them, but I dont think fighting guys like Margarito or Mosley would have changed anyones mind that much, he simply just turns a lot of people off, and really has made fights look very easy. He was also really a lightweight and I think more than proved himself at that weight. By the time he became a welterweight he was looking for the big money fights. Mosley was on the table, as far as I knew, Margarito eh, in my opinion, hes a bit overated.

 

I disagree with some of the guys here. Floyd is firmly an all-time great in my judgment, and in rating him so doesn't detract significance from the term at all in my judgment. Boxing fans are a fickle bunch, and many years have passed since Floyd pitched a boxing masterpiece against undefeated Diego Corrales down at 130lbs. The only problem is, he's been operating in a stacked Welterweight division for a few years now, and he's still found some way to not fight Miguel Cotto, Paul Williams, Shane Mosley, Joshua Clottey, Antonio Margarito, etc. all better fighters than Zab Judah and Carlos Baldomir in my estimation. He came down and swooped the belts from a C level fighter in Carlos, and has been teasing his fans ever since.

 

I think the brackets next to Corrales is a bit unfair. That was his best win in my judgment, and Corrales was a heavy favorite going in. The performance itself? ...About as good as it gets.

Other than that, we're in total agreement.

 

Well some of these comments are a bit off base, but Im not going to comment any further, just was wondering if you thought Floyd would be considered much more than he already is had he faced Margarito or Mosley or Paul Williams?

 

Yes somewhat agree, but realistically, besided Margarito and Mosley, (who he wanted to fight), were those other two fighters really in the mix? Its easy to look at the events that happened before and after to make judgement, but at the time Clottey and Williams were relativley unknown. Williams won the title from Margo, got completely schooled by Quintana, came back and beat him and then went to middleweight.
Cant really blame Mayweather for fighting ODLH instead of Paul Williams or Margarito either at that time.
Youre right boxing fans are fickle. I find it funny how people just write off Pacs struggles with JMM as being on more of an even playing field after he just came off of completely manhandleing one of the strongest welterweights out there, yet JMM had a bad stylistic matchup against Floyd because he was at such a size disadvantage. Its just seeing things the way you want to see them. I just think if Floyd may have struggled a bit more, got knocked down, or bloodied, people wouldnt be saying that, just like Castillo would have never been held in such high regard if he hadnt given Floyd a tough scrap.

 

I'm sorry, but guys like J.M. Marquez are great to a degree, but I am not so sure he is a true "Haller" of greatness........... Close, but no cigar....
:shock:

I also was sold years ago on Donald Curry......... CHRIST! In 1984 and '85, Curry was being hailed as the greatest fighter since pioneers like Joe Gans and Benny Leonard, which led up to comparison's to Raymond Leonard for God's sake....... Then by 1986 & 1987, Curry had sunk like the Titanic.......
atsch

Right now, I am a fond supporter of Vitali Klitschko......... V.K. is the goods.......
:good

MR.BILL

 

Im wondering in the grand scheme of things if you've used this similar formula to breakdown all the fighters on your ATG list? Evaluating their competition, who they fought and when they fought them?

 

Corrales is romanticized as a fighter now. He was like a better version of Jeff Lacy early in his career, getting crazy and unjustified hype because he was KO'ing people regularly. The guy was always a limited boxer. Despite his astonishing win over JLC, he was inferior to both JLC and Casamayor IMO. Beating Corrales was no great achievement. It is a mark of how thin Floyd's res is that Chico is often pointed to as one of Floyd's milestone wins. As a fighter, Chico was never anywhere close to the level of Barrera, Morales or Marquez, and I personally don't think he was as good as Cotto either, definitely not. Corrales was a Hatton standard guy, good but very limited. Beating him and looking good is good, it is not great.

 

Even though I disagree with this, can the same be said about Antonio Margarito?

 

I agree with this. I would put Castillo in the same category though tbh, well not the same category but i would give Castillo a B+, where as id give Chico a B.