Sonny Liston Vs Mike Tyson

I don't think Tyson really respected Bruno. He was totally reckless from the start and ended up eating a big hook in the first round which hurt him more than any other punch he had ever taken. When Bruno was laying it on the back of his head, Tyson in his head was saying I don't give a ****.

Good point, I don't feel like arguing for the sake of arguing so I won't. It has more to do with Liston's timing being second to none than mere reach though.

I said the same thing in my last post, I only used Liston never seeing Tyson's speed/power to illustrate my point :good

I'm just not as positive about this as you are. Tyson pre Douglas wasn't really ever troubled by jabs, of course he had never faced a jab like Buster's before though. I think the fact that Tyson was getting carved up by jabs from Douglas where never before had he been shows how far he had regressed. Especially when you factor in that he faced more big men with jabs than about anyone.

 

Big Cat was 6-4 dont believe everything Box records tells you. They will also tell you that James "Hard Rock"Greene is 5-11 when anyone who has seen him knows its more like 5-4. Liston really isnt smaller than Tyson He was at least Tysons equal in built and Mass,he had a small waist more of a v shape than Tyson. He was bigger than Evander in size and only and inch shorter,and hit much harder than Vander. If you look at the Big Cat vs Ali fight Williams was about an inch taller than Ali and Ali was 6-3. Hell if you want to take it a step further on ESPN classic Dundee said Big Cat was 6-6 Yey i know that was stretching it quite a bit. Bottom line these guys were Cut like Middleweights and today would be weighing around 230 still a decent size heavyweights even by todays standards and they d still be ripped. The heavys are bigger now so they would come in much heavier today to measure up,back then they were already big compared to others so they came in lighter to be faster. I get what you were saying when you stated but the werent 230 they were 215,but you also have to consider my idea on this.

 

Good points.

I don't adhere to the belief that Tyson hits harder. Liston has the power, Tyson has the speed and precision, though. For whatever it's worth if we're getting technical about it.

 

I've always been under the impression that he was 6'3. Never really looked into it too much as he has never struck me as being taller than that, maybe he was a bit taller.

Williams is a favorite of mine. I think his skills get sold short here, he had a very powerful jab and is one of the fastest sluggers of all time in my opinion. Going 1-1 with Terell who had a very good jab and was 6'6, with the loss being a very close decision that could of gone either way shows that he was well rounded and more than a slugger. Getting a draw with Eddie Machen shows again that he's a solid boxer, I think that his skills generally get under rated and his pure power gets a bit over rated. He still had very good power though.
Against Liston, he knew that he had met someone who he couldn't outjab in order to set his attack up, and decided to go for broke and hope that Liston couldn't hold up under the attack.

How do you see him doing against Patterson if he was given a title shot during Patterson's reign?

 

I don't know why people are so certain that Liston was "invincible" against fighters who come to him. The best fighters who came to him or stood in front of him - Patterson, Williams, Folley - all had very questionable chins. We never saw him tested against a Joe Frazier-type aggressor with durability and staying power.

 

But it figures that a fighter (even a good one) with a shaky chin stands a good chance of getting "destroyed" when standing in front of a big puncher. The fighters I listed had all been blasted out in other fights before and/or after Liston did, so it's not like he was the only one ever to do so in each case.

 

A couple of Tyson's strengths, namely his punch resistance and ability to slip the jab, tend to get overplayed at times. Tyson had rhythmic head and upper body movement that seemed to follow a set pattern, something that Liston would latch on to IMO. Regarding Liston's jab; it wasn't as fast as Ali's (or maybe even Douglas'), but I don't think it would matter to a certain extent. What would matter is the timing, accuracy and length with which he threw it, not to mention the thudding force. And even if Tyson was able to slip it, what's to say he wouldn't walk onto a straight right or uppercut if Liston followed up? Which he was well capable of doing. I also think that his jab was, if not lightning, a good deal faster than it looked. Make no mistake; that jab is hitting Tyson.

And concerning Tyson's chin: it's true that it generally took an alarming amount of punishment to finish him, punishment that he took to the very end. Now, I don't like Teddy Atlas, but there was a considerable grain of truth to him calling Mike a brave quitter or whatever it was. Tyson, as he proved, could withstand punishment physically, but it didn't seem to take long for his head to drop, nor for his desire to fight back to start waning. He took his beatings alright, but always seemed to reach a certain point where he would lose the will to fight back despite still having his faculties in tact.

 

Liston takes tyson's head off

 

Much moore---- I think Patterson was the better overall fighter than Big Cat but in a HTH matchup I like WIlliams by a 4th or 5th round ko. But one question to everyone do you think Pattersons Chin got better as he got older or do you think he was just better defensivly? He did well against Punchers when he was older like Bonavena and Quarry. He was always getting dropped or kod on a few occasions when facing punchers during and before his title reign.

 

He did well against what opponents he fought that stood in front of him. To say in a general sense that he does well against fighters that stand in front of him is a bit questionable I think, as the fighters who did stand in front of him may not be the greatest barometer to test that aspect of him.

 

liston jab is well known but tyson,( when he used it) has a good jab himself. just something to think about