How hard do you find it to rank Pacquiao...

I'm not going to attempt to ,until he retires.

 

No Barrera does, and Morales has lost 5 of his last 6 and had lost to Raheem pretty one sided, and clearly was on the downside as far as Im concerned. Hatton eh, I dont really care where he was ranked, I never thought much of him even after beating Tsyzu. I guess I keep finding excuses for downgrading Pac. I dont know why, I just see a guy who looks so sloppy and just beats guys with his power and speed, and when he got in with really good technical fighters, things were different, so lets see if he can beat a really good technical weltwerweight. It just has to be considered, because personally I think Pac has always had the power of a welterweight even at the lighter weights. Thats why I say, if he beats Mayweather one sided or gets beat one sided it kind of puts things in perspective (for me), because all those questions about the other fighters will come out. Just my opinion though, I think some of my criticism could be a bit too much but thats how I feel, I like him hes an exciting fighter, but I still see a guy thats a bit sloppy, and compensates for it with his superior power.

 

I rank him far higher in hypothetical h2h terms at 140 than I do at any other weight. The reason being I think he looks physically better and better in terms of skillset now than he ever has. He is only above 140 for the big money fights and because lww is a ghost town. The current version of Pac is the best ever and 140 would be his optimum fighting weight. There genuinely are not many fighters who have ever graced that division that I would back to beat him.

 

I think based off a quick knockout over Hatton, it's a little to early to be favoring him over the likes of Pryor and Tsyzu.

 

JCC , pryor and maybe tszyu

 

Whitaker, Mayweather, 140lb Sugar Ray, Duran, Napoles all own him at 140lbs. I think he beats Pryor and maybe just maybe Chavez, Arguello is a toss up I think he takes with his speed, Tyszu is an interesting fight I think he should win but the counter right could put him in check.

 

I disagree. The Hatton fight is not the only relevant fight here. Pac weighed in at 142lbs for Oscar, then 144lbs for Cotto, and weighed around 148lbs on fightnight for each one, which is what he would weigh if he weighed in on the lww limit. The Pac of those three fights was a better fighter than Tszyu, and would beat Tsyzu. Did Tszyu even have three wins as good as Pac's three in his entire career? I don't think he did. His resume is garbage and comes nowhere near justifying his status as a lww great. Pryor would of course be a far more difficult challenge, but we have discussed that one before. As someone who owns a partial career set of the Hawk, I believe Pac beats him more often than not.

 

No problem man, and I hope you didn't mind me giving you a little crap there. And I can certainly see some of your points, there is no doubt that PAcquiao is not a slick, technically perfect fighter. He does leave himself open, he does leave himself off balance, he does make mistakes. But despite that I find him amazing to watch as he demolishes one fighter after another and pulls off the sort of feats that are supposed to be as close to impossible as you can get for a boxer.

And despite the mistakes he does make, he is an incredibly gifted fighter. I started off being completely unconvinced, and felt that JMM I and Morales I was proof of that. But since then... what an amazing few years it has been. And what amazing improvements he's made as a fighter since then.

 

Zoo is going to land that right. Fact. His right got one punch KO power that Pac ain't got. Period. The Hatton Ko while good is meaning less if you want to gauge his punching power because literally running chin up high into a shot will get you iced even against a mediocre puncher. Pac beat merciless on a stationary proven chinney Cotto for twelve and needed the ref to stop the fight. Tito, prime DLH or Hearns would have had Cotto out cold, no question about.

BTW, while Zabs chin is nothing to write home about, nobody ever completely ko'ed him senseless like Zoo did, Cotto/Mayweather put a beating on him but could not muster up the same scenerio on a far more faded fighter than Zoo faced.

Most likely you gonna bring up the Philips fight........Vince ATE some monster shots in that fight, it was toe to toe with a green Zoo who eventually ran out of gas. I can assure you Pac while a much better fighter that Phillips is nowhere near as strong as him and also ain't got his chin.

If Marquezes right is going to make him do the chicken dance then a timed Zoo right is a punch he definitely does not want to get tagged with. Can he avoid it the entire fight ? Doubtful.

 

Phillips and Hatton stopped Tsyzu. Pacquiao is in another dimension to those two guys. He smokes Tszyu all day long.

 

it's always difficult to assign a fair rating to a fighter who's career is still in progress. As crazy as it may sound, I can remember when fighters like Meldrick Taylor and Donald Curry were haled as the next coming of Ray Robinson, and for a brief period they looked as though they might very well be... But then, lightening struck... I thought Julio Cesar Chavez was basically the greatest fighter of all time about the point where he reached 75-0, but looking back in hindsite, I don't think he even makes top 10.

 

I honestly don't think Pac's changed his tactics up that much from his earlier career. He fought Cotto the exact same way he used to fight back in his Featherweight days. He's improved his game and added a few new tools to his arsenal, but stylistically he's still pretty much the same as he's always been, and I believe his weaknesses would still show up against the right kind of boxer regardless of weight.

 

If you're going to look at the Hatton fight for Pacquaio then how about we compare how Tyszu did, he got beaten up and stopped against a Hatton employing the same tactics.

You say Cotto's chinny, but Judah/Mosley/Torres couldnt stop him, Pacquaio did while Cotto was running. That was an impressive stoppage and Pacman proved his chin against Cotto

Tyszu was outboxed against the lesser Mitchell in their first fight and for periods against Ukral. He would often get beaten to the punch very often against Hatton for 1

Tyszu has been hurt himself against southpaws in the Judah/Hurtado fights and ofcourse stopped against Hatton and Phillips

Just because Tyszu lands doesn't means he KO's Pacquaio, hes a big puncher but most of the fighters he ko'd were chinny or making bad mistakes (Judah).

I think I favour Pacquaio here but Tyszu's right hand gives him a punchers chance for sure.

 

Marquez.

Timing is the key with Pacquaio. Rushing towards him is certainly not the way to do it. Cotto had some success when he hung back and boxed within range. As soon as he came forward and exchanged punches he was on the canvas.

Mayweather should handle Pacquaio's offense.

 

That's pretty much the way I see it.