New Book - In the Ring With James J. Jeffries

What if Fitz hadnt been 39 years old and inactive for 2 years ?

 

Your points have to be taken on board ,but Louis was only under 200lbs for 4 of his title defences,and stated that drying out to make the weight adversely affected him for the first Conn fight ." I felt like ****".

 

Might have been better yet. But I don't think many people who saw Jeffries-Fitz II would have picked 1900 Fitz against 1902 Jeffries. Any ways, they thought the Fitz who did rematch Jeffries made a heck of a fight; Joe Gans said Fitz would ahve beaten anyone else.

 

Nat Fleisher felt Fitzsimmons was the best knock out puncher he ever saw. Better than Louis or Dempsey. Indeed Fitz killed three men in the ring from boxing related injures.

In the second Fitzsimmons vs Jeffries match, Fitz landed his best and then some, possibly with loaded gloves. This leads me to believe Jeffries who had the head of a cinder block, and perhaps the strongest legs of any champion could have taken Liston or Foreman's best. Maybe not for ever, but surive a chin checker or two for sure.

I wonder if the book talked about Jeffries defense. In news reads, he makes even Corbett and Jack Johnson ( While Jeffires had stamina early int he 1910 fight ) miss.

 

So far, the citations about Jeffries defense are mostly to the effect that he's very difficult to hit in a vital spot, nor is he inclined to run into a big punch. Jeffries did make Fitz miss a lot in their first fight, and was able to block a lot of Sharkeys punches when he defended against the Sailor. Jeffries got hit in the face a lot by Corbett (I) and Fitzsimmons (II) but didn't really give a damn. I've read right up to the start of the rematch with Corbett, it will be interesting to see the comments about Jeffries defense in this fight.

Trainer Delany threw away the scales during Jeffries training for Corbett II, feeling Jeffries had always given too much thought to his poundage. Corbett said he (Corbett) was coming in heavier and stronger, intending to move less and punch harder. (Corbett had come under some criticism for pulling back from his own punches against Fitzsimmons and in Jeffries I).

 

Am through the chapter on Corbett II. Jeffries speed and boxing considered to be an improvement even over Fitz II, and still hitting very powerfully. Corbett deemed not as fast as formerly -- to what extent by design or necessity (or necessitated design) could be argued -- but considered well conditioned. Corbett was receiving oxygen between rounds from a hose connected to a large tank underneath the ring. Jeffries largely eschewed the crouch. Jeffries didn't receive very much facial damage in this one.
General concensus was that Corbett performed well, but Jeffries had become too much for anyone -- too powerful, too durable, and startling improvement in speed (despite not training down as much) and boxing skill.

 

There is a report that Corbett had eye problems going into the second Jeffries fight,I wonder if anyone has any information on this?

 

Building up to Monroe -- Delaney is reported as saying that if a black were to win the hvywt championship, all the whites would have to move out of San Francisco.

Quite ironic that Delaney was Johnson's cheif second at Reno.

 

Delaney was a mean SOB and former bare knuckle guy. Delaney and Ryan were the two key trainers for Jeffreis. Each man had a falling out. Ryan was in Corbett's corner for the 2nd fight, and Delaney who knew Jeffries as well as anyone helped Jack Johnson in the 1910 match.

I wonder if the book chronicles the fall out between Jeffries his trainers?

 

Pollack's book discusses some of the tensions between Ryan and Delaney. Delaney especially felt that Ryan was having Jeffries too light and doing too much road work.
Manager Brady made Ryan leave Jeffries corner during the Corbett fight. Ryan was out as Jeffries trainer after that. Brady thought that Jeffries was over reliant on countering and needed to be more agressive.
After Ryan left, Jeffries became a more stand-up boxer and was able to box faster than in the crouch.
It seems to me that Jeffries probably was right to go to a different approach; that's not to say Jeffries didn't learn a lot under Ryan.

Delaney was announcing his retirement at about the same time as Jeffries; I don't know to what extent Delaney went through on this intent (until Reno).

Well, I do highly recommend Pollack's book, if you can save up for it. To say it contains a wealth of information on Jeffries is an understatement.

 

Finished the book! :happy

Jeffries chewed gum during the Monroe fight. I take it that was an expression of contempt.

Both Jeffries and Fitzsimmons were great for laughing during fight.

There's been discussion, in other threads, about how much Jeffries weighed before his comeback. Pollack says over 260 lb, which seems a safe assertion.

Johnson-Hart, Johnson's scoring mostly lefts, with some right crosses. Hart was said to have an akward way of stopping Johnson's uppercuts. I'd be interested in learning more about that last tidbit.

Hart did some good work with rights to the heart. This resonates with some other things: Moyle's Langford book, where one of the few bright spots for Sam (vs Johnson) was said to be his blows to Johnson's heart; and the big heart punch Willard landed in the 25th (next to last) round in Havanna. Johnson vs. (prime) Jeffries, Jeff's right to the heart might have been the trickiest thing for Jack to negotiate.

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The last two pages of the main text have a quote from JL Sullivan, Los Angeles Times, May 12, 1907, giving the nod to Jeffries if the two of them had met, each as they were at their best.

I think, as Sullivan stated it, under the conditions he stipulated, this is a reasonable assesment.

I think that, to ask who would have prevailed if Jawn had come along in Jeffries day, or Jim in Sullivan's day, would be a different matter. I don't know who I'd pick in that scenario; and , if my life depended upon the outcome, I'd make sure to have my will and last testament in order.

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When you look at the fights that advanced Jeffries reputation -- Fitzsimmons I, Ruhlin, Fitzsimmons II, Corbett II -- and those that caused some depreciation of his repute -- Armstrong, Sharkey II, Corbet I -- much of it simply comes down to Jeffries physical condition: ongoing hand problems that became accute in the Armstrong fight; a bum left-arm in his first two defences. And I think once Jeffries left got healed, and people realized what a whole Jeff could do, then they viewed Sharkey II and Corbett I more charitably. (However, it's also true they prefered the faster, more active, straight-up Delaney-Jeffries to the crouching, countering Ryan-Jeffries. (May I also say that this entire paragraph over-simplifies things a bit)).

I said that Fitz II increased Jeffries repute. This, despite the facial damage. That is because observers mostly thought that 1) Fitz would have licked anyone else, 2) there was nothing flukey or chancy about Jeffries winning. They thought it was a great, great fight; but there didn't seem to be any unanswered questions regarding how the two matched up.

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Sam Austin of Police Gazette opined, regarding Corbett II, that even if Jeffries and Corbett had been of equal pounds, Jeffries likely would have won; his over all fighting quality was greater, even if Corbett was a little more skilled.

 

I'd like to hear the author comment on this.