Duran vs Hearns 1980

Here, I'm actually going to play directly into your hands. Randy Shields claimed that Ray telegraphed his punches. Most boxers of course were not as defensively skilled as Shields, but Benitez and Duran later missed frequently enough to lend some credence to that claim. Randy did not describe telegraphing as one of Tommy's faults though, and Hearns was able to buckle him numerous times with right hands. As it's normally the punch one doesn't see which proves fatal, this could explain why Tommy was able to hurt Roberto where Leonard was never able to. Duran always saw Ray's punches coming.

Tommy really didn't like the "Hit Man" moniker at first, feeling it a negative connotation which took away from the positive things he wanted to do for the city of Detroit. (His community loyalty was one of the classiest and most admirable things about his persona.) Doing a really stunning about face and embracing his formerly despised nickname was Duran's cue to locate a soft spot. I didn't see it live, but if I did, I'da had bricks in my pants if I'd put money on Duran. (At the time, I expected Hearns to decision him easily, but didn't bet because I though Roberto could still damage his body and drown him late.)

What Hearns did to Cuevas shocked just about everybody. His taped 12 round classic with Espada had been broadcast nationally on the syndicated Cavalcade of Boxing, so his toughness and stamina were established in the public mind. He wasn't merely a bully beating up on knockoffs and stiffs.

Ray started out with such intense concentration and eyes so wide open on Tommy that I thought I was going to get a headache by transference. (His eyebrows were up around his hairline through the early portion of this one. Of course he'd had the advantage of having provided color commentary on the Hearns-Shields broadcast, and had the ability to take full advantage of what he observed.)

Emotions are the very crux of "romantic-tinged assumptions" (and colorful fun to write), and Duran was all about emotions and motivation. A properly motivated 29 year old Duran in peak condition would have been far better prepared to recover from any distress than the virtually hung over version was in 1984. The rest period between rounds one and two were not sufficient for him to shake the cobwebs. Would a peak conditioned Duran have failed to clear his head within that time frame?

Conditioning can make all the difference in withstanding or recovering from punishment. As china chinned as Patterson was, great conditioning meant that his lights were never completely put out. (Even against Liston, he almost beat the count both times.) Eddie Davis was stopped five times in his six defeats, and not always against stellar opposition. (Pete McIntyre.) But in his only decision loss, he got himself into amazing shape, and hardly took a backwards step in absorbing everything a peak Mike Spinks could dish out in retreat. (Many thought Eddie deserved the verdict, though professional ringsiders scored Mike the winner.) But barely a year after the high point with Spinks, Eddie reverted to form in getting stopped a second time by Marvin Johnson (Seven years after Marvin handed him his first defeat.)

Although great conditioning doesn't always translate into improved punch resistance and recovery, Duran is somebody who it can make a huge difference for, as was the case when he went up against Hagler and Barkley with nary a flinch.

In picking Duran to beat Hearns in 1980, I feel the biggest risk is gambling that he'd stop Tommy, not that he could get stopped himself. Unlike Montreal, Roberto cannot expect to win a decision in this pairing. He has to take Hearns out to prevail. Certainly, he'd take more chances, but Hagler, always in great shape, proved that it was possible to survive Tommy's Sunday punch. I'm chancing that a peak conditioned Duran could as well.

 

Interesting matchup to say the least. Duran of 1980 was one helluva fighter no doubt. Just ask Leonard. There's one thing though that bothers me. In thier 1st fight, Duran was able to reach Ray's body and close the distance regularly. But I think that was due in part to Ray fighting a somewhat foolish fight. As Dundee later said, "Ray tried to beat the little mother at his own game". Duran was able to get to Leonard before the fight even started thus making Leonard abandon his stick and move boxing M.O. and street fight Duran. I wonder what would've happened if Ray fought a smarter fight and boxed Roberto instead, using his speed and movement along with height and reach to his advantage. The question I have is whether or not Roberto could do that to Hearns. For all of his power, Hearns was a very good boxer when he wanted to be. Combine that with his power, height and reach and Duran has alot to overcome. When Ray hurt Tommy in the middle of their fight Hearns resorted to boxing circles around Ray and closing his eye as well. Leonard was actually behind on points up until the stoppage. Could Duran get inside that long reach of Hearns while avoiding Tommy's heavy artillery consistently enough to do enough damage? Hearns has the advantage of punching down while Duran has to punch up as well as getting close while slipping a long fast hard jab and a devestating right hand. If he can then he certainly has a shot but I'm not convinced that Roberto can. Against a flat footed Leonard Duran had to give the fight of his life to win. A remarkable performance by Duran no doubt but still he had to give it all he had. Styilistically speaking Hearns in 1980 might have posed even more formidable obstacles to overcome.

 

I stopped reading this when you started talking about herpes. I don't get into personal attacks, I am into objective rating of fighters on ESB and Duran was overrated when it comes to how people view him ATG and against Hearns level fighter. He beat one Hof guy and then Ray beat him and Duran quit before he would be knocked out. Ray beat him easily. And Duran had Ray fighting his fight and he couldn't stop him. That was a close fight on the inside and Duran with 71 wins couldn't stop Ray. Duran does not have the wins against ATG fights to be top ATG. That is why you are upset with me about Duran. I said he was great, but top 25-30, not top 10. That is pretty good considering his lack of wins vs. ATG fighters. And with Hearns. Hearns outclassed him in every way in 1984. He was stronger/faster/sharper. Duran was champ at 154 also. It is easy for people to say Duran would have stopped Hearns. one example comparing how Leonard was just better than Duran against Hearns. Hearns knocked out Duran when he put his jab to Duran's chest and landed a right in what Hearns called a fadeaway right. It worked a few times in that fight in 1984. That was not because Duran was washed up (since Duran was champ then also)it was because Duran fell for the move. Leonard had the same jab by Hearns put in his chest, then Hearns threw the right and Leonard ducked. Duran would have fallen for that at welt. also and been stopped. That is objective. The only thing Duran has in his career is that he beat Ray, and that does not make him top 10 ATG. Ray was top 10 and Ray beat Duran easily the next two times.

 

I think so also. Duran never knocked out an ATG fighter. Believe it or not. He knocked out Davey Moore, but not an ATG. People like that one fellow says I am confusing Duran with someone who I don't like in life or something. He doesn't believe in objectivity or boxing knowledge. I said Duran was a great fighter, but not ATG 10. His easy losses to Leonard and Benitez and Hearns show that he had flaws when fighting ATG fighters who had speed.

 

Jeezus, you must be well thick, you've just confirmed everything i've said about you, another cut/copy/paste stat hound in denial & just the same old anti duran pro SRL tributes

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MAg has been repeating the same Duran garbage for ages.Doesn't matter what you say, it goes right over his head.

 

I respect Duran. I sure watched many of his fights. He is overrated and I will never think otherwise. He beat guys like Davey Moore and Barkley well and looked great, then lost big time to Wilfred Benitez and Thomas Hearns. His lightweight reign was very good, but does that rate him top atg ever? I just do not see where the rankings can put Duran that high. And yes the fact Duran could not stop Ray, if Duran was so dominant he would have stopped him. He didn't. Then Duran quits before Ray would have stopped him. Fact is look at Duran's wins over ATG fighters. You have one win, and that one was not a knockout. 1-5 against the legends of the 1980s.

 

Doesn't go over my head, but the things I say on here you guys do not really listen to either. To think that the best thing you say Duran did was beat Ray in 1980. A great win would have been a dominant stoppage. Ray went 15 rounds with a guy who had 71 fights, and Ray was just on his second title defense of his first title. Very inexperienced. Then Ray wins the rematch, which Duran fans act like didn't happen. Then he fought Duran against in 1989 and Ray outclasses him again.

 

Thats all clear to see.

But you refuse to look at the context of all that. You are always just this happened, that happened and thats the end of it. No details..No perspective..just what the record book says.

As Ive said a million times you always look at Duran half glass full...And thats fine on issues that you can look at in two ways but on EVERYTHING that has to do with Duran and even topics that have nothing to with Duran but you seem to drop his name anyway ...it reeks of hate MAG my good pal.
Let it go I say...Hate only shortens lives.

 

Hearns by KO. Duran was never a one punch ko artist. Never. He was physically very strong, though. He was very aggressive and through lots of punches, but in my opinion, even Leonard was a bigger puncher and finisher than Duran. Hearns could have easily outboxed Duran. Even if Duran got inside, he would have paid a grave price.

 

Funny response, but a good one. Good post. I do not hate him. I just never understood the excuses for him. He really never beat the top guys the way he should have to be highly rated top ATG. I give him credit. Beating Moore and Barkley and Leonard one time is great, and his lightweight reign was dominant, but not as high as what people here rate him. What details do you want? The excuses Duran made that he was out of shape in the second fight? I am looking at record yes. He was in the ring with Hearns and Benitez. Had he beaten them that would have been two great wins for him. He had the chance to. He had them in front of him in the ring.

 

Soooo..those one punch stoppages of Robertson, Lampkin, Ortiz, Brooks, Rojas, Villa etc didnt happen?

A lot of Duran's stoppages came very abruptly from either one or two punches.

 

I was the same as you mate, and many of the Classic posters will attest to that. But when you look at Duran in some of his best performances, and then you look at him in with Benitez and Lang. It's painfully obvious that Duran wasn't hampered by the opposition as much as he was by his own shape. Duran on his best day beats both of those fighters in my judgment, and losses aside, why don't we look at the positives? He showed insane dominance at 135lbs, and after two careers worth of fights at that weight, he moves up and beats Leonard. It's amazing. Simply amazing.

 

oh yeah, Duran's losses all came because he was out of shape lol.. He showed insane dominance at 135 because the division wasn't that good in his time, and because he rarely weighed in at the LW limit. His only amazing achievement was talking SRL into fighting the wrong fight. His other achievements include quitting when SRL decided to fight his OWN style, getting comprehensively embarassed by Benitez in every possible way, and getting one punched into bolivian by Hearns. Also getting completely embarassed by SRL once more and going life and death with a whole raft of mediocre fighters.

Oh yeah, he was real good at fighting guys with less than 10 fights when he was champ too.

 

hahahahahha... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!! wow you can find some great posts in the classic forum!