why do so many old timers look so bad on tape???

That Charles/Bivins fight is just a borefest due to the clinching. Just one of those nights though, there's a whole lot of film to the contrary on at least Charles's abilities. Such as:

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I don't think the cameras have too much to do with it. You can tell an extremely skilled fighter on pretty much any film. If you go back pre-30's and 40's it mostly has to do with a general change in boxing styles. A lot of the best fighters prior don't look as aesthetically pleasing because of the different techniques they used to accomodate the rules and regulations of the time. Watch a guy like Kid Chocolate in the 30's, an excellent fighter and technician by any standards.

 

I think boxers in the earlier days used to pace themselves a lot more and try and put the pressure on in spurts. I'm thinking mainly of the way kid gavillan used to fight. I may be completely wrong though.

 

I think the camera's are a big factor myself. I watch Saldivar on film and he looks nowhere near as skilled and dynamic as Barrera, and yet you rank him higher on your all-time Mexicans list. The first thing I ask for when someone says something like that is, "Show me video". Reading a secondary source isn't good enough for me, I need to see how good this guy looks on film. Seeing is believing, and if they are really that good, it'll show on the film. Problem is, with the rubbish technology back in the 50s, you can't fully gauge just how good they are because the video quality is...pretty awful. You can see the minute details with today's cameras.

 

The sports developed and moved forward, maybe technique wise it peaked in the 40s/50s, before that techniques just werent as slick. In terms of physical ability the best fighters have improved generation on generation for the most part. This is the case with every sport we can measure, techniques/understands/technology/nutrition all equate to progress. No one in this forum wants to believe this and in some ways old timers were more experienced, in some periods they have a larger talent pool (40s-80s) so some old timers are on par or better P4P, but pre 40s fighters just aren't as advanced. Its no coincidence that nearly all of the fighters who are considered to have the fastest hands of all time, have been around the past 30years and not prior to that

 

I bet your a fan of Saldivar, hes similar to MAB, but agreed hes not as skilled or fast or sharp as MAB, MAB would clearly outbox him to a UD

 

:good I am indeed. He's just a slower version of him in my judgement. Very patient, counters well in combination. Very similar.

 

Only difference is Saldivar was able to beat speedy types like Laguna, Legra, Famechon and Winstone, whilst Barrera got beaten twice by the speedy Junior Jones and Manny Pac. :good

 

:verysad Don't talk rubbish.

I realize that you favor the older timers, this is the Classic forum after all, but there were many differences between the two. Barrera won titles in three divisions, Saldivar only one. Barrera had noticably faster hands, and threw his combination's with sharper and straighter technique. Saldivar beat some great guys, and does look very good on film, but too me, by watching them. Marco was better. No favoritism involved.

 

Barrera was faster but that's hardly determinant of him being better than Saldivar. Erik Morales wasn't that quick, wasn't that accurate with his punches either, but he still held his own against Barrera.

I think if Barrera was around when Saldivar was fighting he probably wouldn't have held A title, let alone three.

 

...Wow, this goes to far sometimes. Fighters automatically become better when they are put in black and white for some strange reason.

 

I had MAB winning the Jones rematch and if you're going to include those as speedy types (they werent all that fast), then include Morales, MkKinney, Hamed, Tapia for MAB

 

If by 'holding your own', you mean not getting knocked out but clearly taking a beating while losing 3 contest, despite draining down from 140lbs, then I'd agree with you :good

Morales is faster, bigger and stronger than Saldivar anyway (not saying hes as good)