What could Patterson have done differently against Liston?

Was there any way for Floyd to save his title? Could he have approached Sonny in a more effective manner?

 

I am minded to say that his best option would be not to sign the contract however-

The most critical thing with Liston is not to come towards him. This is exactly what he feeds off. Once you deny him that he has a long night on his hands.

I would advise Patterson to make Liston force the fight, use lateral movment to prevent him from setting up the jab. It probably wont work but it might make things more competitive.

 

I think he difinitely should have tried lateral movement and retreating to stay away from Liston in the early rounds, bobbing low when Liston got close. It made no sense to get inside with Sonny early. Patterson played into Sonny's hands.
I don't know if another strategy could have worked, but it could not have failed more miserably. Many experts in fact thought that Patterson would win. He had his supporters and Liston had his doubters. The Liston as superman image came after the Patterson fights.

 

Firstly have a positive mental attitude of superiority and dont be scared - be scared enough to perform at your best not too much to be intimadated.

Stay in the pocket, shoulder roll defense, tight guard, wait to counter, get out and reset, use latteral movement, don't be affraid to throw potshots when Liston makes defencive errors and when you get to the ropes turn him round so he has to cut off the whole rung again.

Using the right mentality and strategy can drastically change how fights pan out

 

Patterson didnt have the footwork to stay away from Liston and didnt have the strength to try and tie him up. If i was him like said before id try lots of lateral movement, quick combinations, then moving again. Basically running the whole fight and trying to score points without getting in a position where liston could knock him out. It wouldnt work though it would just postpone the inevitable knockout.

 

I have to agree with both you and Janitor, that it was definately foolish of Patterson to engage Liston at close range and so early on. Do you feel however, that he indeed had the boxing ability to launch such a plan involving more lateral movement and boxing from a distance? Sonny had a tremendous jab that he could use from long range, and a way of cutting off the ring.

I don't know.

 

Frankly, I don't either. One thing about Patterson no one comments on. Marciano and Frazier and others are rightly or wrongly scored for being slow starters. No one mentions that Patterson seems to have been a slow starter. Cooper is the only name or semi-name opponent he ko'd in less than five. And his career ko percentage is pumped up a bit by his greater success at lightheavy. He ko'd 18 of 34 at heavy, with his biggest victims Ingo and London at 206 and both of them probably could have and should have come in a few pounds lighter. Unlike Dempsey, Louis, or Marciano, his power has to be viewed as somewhat suspect against big heavies the size of Liston, let alone one as talented as Liston.

 

True,

I don't particularly think that Patterson was as devastating as his numbers might reflect either. When it came to facing some of the larger, stronger heavyweights of the 60's, Floyd certainly appeared less formidable and more vulnerable.

 

Liston was poor at cutting off the ring ,he just followed his opponents around,unlike his protege Foreman ,who was very adept at geometry inside the ropes,the thing was patterson couldnt box on the retreat ,behind his jab,as someone like Machen could,Floyd was essentially a swarmer,but he was too small ,and not powerful enough to do it against Liston,its a style matchup that is just terrible for Patterson,like frazier against Foreman.

 

Run.

 

Patterson was just too small.....Liston's heavy punches blasted thru
Floyd's defense and smashed him to the ground.

Eddie Machen had some success against Liston using footwork and
and handspeed, and big Heavies like Cleve Williams and Ali were able
to hit Liston with their long reach.

As they say in Texas, Floyd knew "it was all over but the crying".

 

brought a gun???

 

Floyd demonstrated against Chuvalo that he was capable of moving laterally, and ducking under Liston's shots while on the move. What he did against Chuvalo is what he should have attempted with Sonny.

 

Do what Ibragimov did against Briggs. I don't think he can pull it off and Liston is not a plodding statue like Briggs, but it's his only chance. Get low, land a few shots or impress the judges with it, get outside and stay away early as much as possible.

This is very interesting.
If Liston was not that highly regarded, how much was thought of him after the two Clay fights?

Also, you said "most experts thought that Patterson would win", was that before or after the first fight ?

 

I said "many" experts, not most. Obviously, Liston was the bigger favorite for the second fight, but there were some who thought Patterson might do to Liston what he did to Johansson and turn it around, but Liston was a strong favorite.
After the second first-round knockout, Liston's rep went off the charts. Interestingly, the experts considered the then Cassius Clay to not be in the same class as Patterson.

His rep then plunged after the two Ali fights to rock bottom. It has obviously come way back as about 10% of posters on this forum think Liston would sweep against the ten greatest heavyweights, including Ali. I think he was strongly overrated after the Patterson fights, was badly underrated after the Ali debacles, and is once more grossly overrated.