Is Vitali Klitschko an ATG?

Why?

Being a top 25-30 HW means that you have some top notch wins, or a very solid amount of wins over ok fighers.

More should go into it than being 6'7 and outclassing guys like Kevin Johnson.

 

YES! Vitali Klit has beaten 98% of everyone he's ever faced and he has cleaned out all his contenders and pretenders that have been put in front of him........ You are still considered great as long as you prove to be the best in your division during your era... Vitali Klit has proven to be just that......... Why detract from him? He's never ducked a challenger before..... And at age 38 he is doing things after injury and surgery that most boxers past or present couldn't or can't do at his age........ I think Vitali Klit is great.......... And I have him in my top-10 ATG list of heavies for sure...... He'd beat 85% to 90% of all the ex-champs from 1887 to 2009........

Check:

Like ex-champs "Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Baer, Louis, Charles, Marciano, Liston, Frazier, Norton & Bowe" have these super-human resume's with all these awesome wins over numerous big men with skills and finess......... C'mon...... Vitali Klit is doing his own thing just fine......... Give him his due credit..........

MR.BILLbbb:rasta

 

The Johnson fight answered the one unknown or doubt I had about Vitali and that was his stamina. It's clear that the man has incredible stamina even at 38. He broke Ibeabuchi's record for most thrown punches in a 12 rounder by a HW.
Great boxing skills, great chin, great stamina. Deadly combination.
A comment I read on youtube summed up the fight nicely "It was not rope-a-dope, it was dope-on-a-rope"

 

This board is in love with amorphous terms like "All Time Great" because they allow the latitude necessary to affirm some rather ridiculous conceptions regarding the history of the sport. Absolute intellectual horse****.

 

Vitali's never beaten a good big man with skill and fitness

 

Horse-Manure! Vitali Klit has beaten the best out there in front of him...... Say what you will, but eversince he threw-out his shoulder to Chris Byrd in 2000, Vitali Klit has come back to fight, face and beat some damn good dudes who were capable of fighting............ Guys like: "Larry Donald, Lennox Lewis, Kirk Johnson, Corrie Sanders, Danny Williams, Sammy Peter, Juan Gomez, Chris Arreola and Kevin Johnson" are NOT exactly pussies......... Are they the greatest lot ever recorded / posted before? NO!! But all worthy of note..... Especially the name 'Lennox Lewis'.... Yes, Klit lost to Lewis on cuts, but Klit was winning the damn classical fight in 2003....... Klit gets my respect.........
:bbb:hat

MR.BILL

 

He lost to Lennox Lewis. The most unprepared and out of shape Lennox to ever step in the ring.

Kirk Johnson showed up looking like a whale

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Ditto for Sanders, who was ten pounds heavier than in his previous fight.

Arreola looks ****ing disgusting and it makes me laugh that HBO tried to hype him up so much.

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Chris, then you throw out Larry Donald and Danny Williams like they're credible opponents who help someone's case for being an ATG If you want to tell yourself that beating guys like Danny Williams and Larry Donald puts your resume on par with some of the greats of the past, feel free. But you're living in fantasy land.

 

Mind-numbing. What you said there doesn't bolster Vitali's claim, it weakens it. Point is, Vitali's resume is very weak. What will he be remembered by? Losing to an old Lennox Lewis. What is a fighter like Frazier remembered by? Beating Ali. Foreman? Beating Frazier. Tyson? Having one of the most destructive runs in HW title history.

 

I voted yes before I read that he has to break top 100 PFP.

That answer would be no. He does not.

However, I don't think that is a fair criteria. The gloved era is gernally considered to have started in 1892 when Corbet beat Sullivan- thats over 100 years. I think there have been a lot more than 100 great fighters in those 100 years.

How about a top 200?

 

In a boxers sense you could argue yes. Vitali has the best rounds won to rounds lost ratio in the history of boxing champions....and this includes amazing boxers such as Roy Jones, Pernell Whitaker, Joe Calzaghe, etc...

Vitali will make the hall of fame, but will never be viewed as a Sugar Ray Robinson pound for pound great, nor should he. Could you imagine a 6'8" 250 pound Sugar Ray Robinson? I can't either.

 

The difference is that those fighters fought a much higher level of competition.
Which you know but choose to ignore. Losing rounds against a prime Oscar De La Hoya (but winning more than a few also) does a hell of a lot more for PEA's resume than Vitali getting a great rounds won/lost ratio by fighting guys like Kevin Johnson

 

IMO not really. He has few title defences, a weak resume, and the only time he fought a hall of famer, he lost. He also quit boxing just when his career could have taken off after winning the title and making one defence. If he had stuck it out he could have (maybe) got 10+ title defences and then he'd have a much better claim. Marciano is often criticized for fighting in a weak era, but at least he was knocking out people of the calibre of Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis, Archie Moore and Jersey Joe Walcott - all hall of famers and heavyweight champions. VK has fought few title defences also, and they have been against average or weak opposition.

He's also somewhat hurt by being in a bad era (Marciano syndrome), and losing against the much older Lennox Lewis. ATGs generally beat the prior ageing champ, that's how they get the title in the first place. VK lost, and then didn't do anything really impressive afterwards to make up for it.

H2H is just pure speculation since we've only seen in him in one tough fight against a great (but old) opponent, and VK lost that one. VK isn't even the dominant fighter of his (extremely weak) era - he quit the fight game for several years and so missed that chance.

 

I have to take issue of this kind of comment, which is made all too often when it comes to assessing fighters. Stats only matter in relation to the quality of opponent fought. Fighters like Valuev or even Sven Ottke had great win-loss records, Mugabi had an incredible KO record until he met Hagler. Stats against a series of bums, tomato cans, and the occasional middling contender cannot be compared with stats earned against legit title contenders, hall of famers, champions and game contenders.

This kind of boxrec rating of fighters is totally misleading and in no way argues for someone being great. If Marciano's 49-0 takes flak for being against somewhat light opposition, then Vitali's inferior record has to take a hell of a lot more flak for being against far, far weaker fighters.

 

Head to head, I think he might have given a lot of great fighters some problems, particularly some of the smaller great heavys of days gone by. But, legacy wise I can't rate him very high; not with Corrie Sanders, Sam Peter and Herbie Hide as his best wins. If he had managed to beat Lennox Lewis, Chris Byrd, then maybe sprinkled a few additional wins over his record like David Tua, Lamon Brewster and his brother, I might be able to make a case, but not as it stands.

 

It is impossible to rate Vitali's legacy at this stage and will be impossible for another 10 years or so. We need to see whether guys like Areola, Johnson etc are capably of beating the best fighters in the world and indeed whetehr they are even world class fighters.

It is incorect to say that he has fought and beat the best put in front of him. The best fighter he fought was Lennox Lewis. He lost. The second best was Chris Byrd, he lost. Both were close fights and Lennox was certainly capable of beating both, but he didnt.

If i were to rate the 10 best fighters on accomplishment (excluding vitali) that came along through Vitalis time as a top fighter then i think that it would probably be something like this: 1. Lennox Lewis 2. Chris Byrd 3. Mike Tyson 4. Evander Holyfield 5. Wladimir Klitchsko 6. John Ruiz 7. Hasim Rahman 8. David Tua 9. Russian Chageav 10 Lamon Brewster

Vitali lost to the two top 10 of his era fighters that he faced and he will probably never fight the no 1 fighter (Wlad). mendoza is correct about his round winning ratio and he has still fought some very good fighters, plus he did fight the conquerors of Wlad (sanders) and Tyson (williams) and who knows guys like Peter, Areola, Johnson etc may yet surprise us and go on to hold distinguished careers. But, at this stage, i still say he has an unproven legacy. If none of the best contenders will ever face each other, then i think that it is unlikely this will change for some time.

I actually like the fact that he is going on his Bum of the Quarter tour at the moment, and i think that the moment that Wlad loses his title and he fights and beats them (if this were to happen) it would greatly solidify his legacy. In the mean time, it is easy for people to forget that he is starting to rack up a number of defences which puts many of the old time greats to shame. If it were not for the fact that he has ducked his best contender (obvious reasons) and he has not really fought the standout best contenders, i think that you could be starting to mount a very strong top 10 case.

Pound for pound, he is still a long way away simply for the fact that there have been so many previous great fighters.